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ParkingEye fine at Manchester Airport Hotel, Fined but within free stay period
Brokenwire
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 12:15
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Coming to this forum a little late, but I hope members can still offer some advice.

On 29 December My car dropped some colleagues and their bags at the Crowne Plaza Manchester Airport hotel. It was 8.30 in the morning and the weather was lousy, heavy rain, mist, the usual for this area. It is a hotel we have been using for many years, and particularly in the last three months before Christmas

The car left in 30 minutes, but I have since received a fine from ParkingEye who now control the car park. I know from previous experience that the hotel allow a free period for picking up or dropping off guests and got an email from the Hotel Guest Sevices Manager confirming 30 minutes free, although he refused to be of further assistance or provide his email in a more formal letter or company paper.

However I thought this would be enough to get the £100 fine dropped, so completed the appeals process to Parking Eye. They refused the appeal, but did not say why, neither did they provide any documents to back up their decision. They did include the link to POPLA.

I completed the POPLA appeal, and this time surprisingly, Parking Eye sent 60 pages of evidence to POPLA. They do not challenge the statement by the Hotel Manager that there is 30 minutes free parking, they simply ignore it.
However in their documents they do allude to a 10 minutes “grace” period.

I am waiting for the result of the POPLA appeal but am not feeling very confident as I think it will come down to an argument between the Hotel and ParkingEye.

My case is that the Hotel has hired ParkingEye to run the Carpark. The hotel claim I can load or drop off for 30 minutes, but ParkingEye seem unaware of this and think ten.

As far as I am concerned I’ll quite happily let this go to court and have them ask the Hotel Manager to clarify his policy. But before it gets to that stage, can members here offfer any advice?






This post has been edited by Brokenwire: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 13:01
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post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 12:15
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hexaflexagon
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 14:04
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QUOTE (Brokenwire @ Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 11:12) *
Thanks to everyone here for all the advice - I'll pass it on to others to come and look on here for help.
Shockingly our local health centre has now employed ParkingEye to fine people going to the Doctors but"overstaying". Another carpark that worked well for years with a simple ticket and barrier system, so revenue raising can be the only excuse.



Well done!
As I said, making the CEO/Chairman the first port of call for any clearly inequitable or dodgy service works every time for me.
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Brokenwire
post Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 14:57
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Not sure if there is a way to”thank” you on this forum, ut consider it done!
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Brokenwire
post Tue, 13 Mar 2018 - 14:06
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Update - Glad I didnt rely on the appeal to POPLA, what a joke that was.
Although the hotel manager instructed Parkingeye to cancel the charge, the POPLA appeal was left to run. Thought others might be interested in what they put.

"Appeal refused...
Assessor supporting rational for decision

When it comes to parking on private land, a motorist accepts the terms and conditions of the site by parking their vehicle. The terms and conditions are stipulated on the signs displayed within the car park. The operator has provided both PDF document versions and photographic evidence of the signage displayed on site. The signs state “Parking tariffs apply 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Visitor guests must enter their full, correct vehicle registration into the terminal at reception to be entitled to FREE parking- subject to a £10 minimum spend. Failure to comply with the terms & conditions will result in a Parking Charge of: £100.” The car park in question is monitored by Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) cameras. The operator has provided photographic evidence of the appellant’s vehicle entering the site at 08:31am and exited the site at 09:01am. The images captured by the ANPR cameras confirm that the appellant’s vehicle remained on site for a total of 30 minutes. I note the appellant’s comments and the evidence provided to support their reason for parking at the site in question. The appellant has provided an email from the hotel guest services manager. Whilst I acknowledge this, the fact that the appellant was a genuine user of the facilities on site did not mean he was exempt from the parking restrictions in place. Furthermore, any comments or assurances made by a third party do not overrule the parking restrictions in place on a car park which is governed by terms and conditions. The onus is on the appellant to ensure he complies with the terms and conditions of the site. It does not display on the signage about a drop off period, the appellant is required to pay for parking. Ultimately, it is the responsibility of the motorist to ensure that when they enter a car park, they have understood the terms and conditions of parking. If the appellant suspected that the terms and conditions of the site could not be complied with, there would have been sufficient time to leave the site without entering into a contract with the operator. By remaining parked on site, the appellant accepted the terms and conditions. On this occasion, the appellant has failed to follow the terms and conditions of the signage at the site. I conclude that the operator issued the Parking Charge Notice correctly. Accordingly, I must refuse this appeal."

So according to POPLA and Parkingeye, to get the free time to unload your guests and luggage at a hotel, you must first do the above and have a 10 minimum spend?
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 13 Mar 2018 - 14:09
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Its the "third party"

No, the hotel is the FIRST party - they are the principals in any arrangement with Parking eye, its their damned car park, so if they VARY the parking contract theycan indeed do so .

Utter rubbish from POPLA as ever.
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Brokenwire
post Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 20:09
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Yes I’m lucky that the manager agreed to tell Parking Eye to cancel it. POPLA seem rubbish. But what worries me is with three different ‘free parking’ times, how many other guests have been ripped off?
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Umkomaas
post Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 06:04
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QUOTE (Brokenwire @ Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 21:09) *
Yes I’m lucky that the manager agreed to tell Parking Eye to cancel it. POPLA seem rubbish. But what worries me is with three different ‘free parking’ times, how many other guests have been ripped off?

You can't be sure this is cancelled until PE write to you to tell you that. It's usually 7-10 days after they are told to cancel by their contract principal that they send the letter.

But with a POPLA win under their belt, I wouldn't be surprised if they ignore the hotel's instruction and plough on against you.

This post has been edited by Umkomaas: Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 06:05
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Brokenwire
post Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 08:34
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Really? Any advice then?
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Umkomaas
post Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 09:16
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QUOTE (Brokenwire @ Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 09:34) *
Really? Any advice then?

See what PE do next. Hopefully a letter notifying you of the cancellation (they are pretty efficient at sending these out) - then it's all over.

However, PE will have incurred costs to this stage - obtaining your details from the DVLA (£2.50), then writing to you (nominal £2.50), POPLA charge (£30) plus associated staff costs, so may not be too keen to take this on the chin.

Whichever way, it's their move next.
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Brokenwire
post Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 10:37
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Ok thanks, I’ll wait and see.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 10:45
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Indeed, see what they do

If they say theyre pursuing you anyway, then you write back, telling them that as their principal has ORDERED them to cancel, they have no possibility of success in court .Shoudl they raise a claim with no prospect of success, against the wishes of their principal, then you will counterclaim for harassment and will enjoin their principal as a codefendant to the counterclaim. The counterclaim would be for no less than £500.
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Brokenwire
post Mon, 21 May 2018 - 13:18
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 10:45) *
Indeed, see what they do

If they say theyre pursuing you anyway, then you write back, telling them that as their principal has ORDERED them to cancel, they have no possibility of success in court .Shoudl they raise a claim with no prospect of success, against the wishes of their principal, then you will counterclaim for harassment and will enjoin their principal as a codefendant to the counterclaim. The counterclaim would be for no less than £500.


Interesting that I am having to come back to this again. Received a letter before county court action today from PE saying that they will proceed, even though the hotel manager apparently instructed them to cancel back in February ( I have a copy of his email to me stating that he would do so.)

I have chased the hotel manager up today to find out but before I reply to PE can anyone offer updated advice, otherwise I will go with Nosferatu's suggestion.
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 21 May 2018 - 13:37
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Indeed, you want confirmation the manager actually did this
its why we normally recommend a chase up if you dont have something unambiguous such as I HAVE told ....
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Brokenwire
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 13:27
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Well even though I chased the Hotel Manager twice, and he replied in writing that he had instructed PE to cancel the charge, I have today received a County Court Claim!

So now have to work out how to reply, as I’ll be defending it in full and attaching all his correspondence as evidence..

Can anyone offer any advice on the Court forms? PE want £175 off me although the court clerk said I can file a counter claim but I have no way of knowing what my expenses will be if I have to attend court. Can a claim be updated later?
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Jlc
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 13:42
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QUOTE (Brokenwire @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 14:27) *
...the court clerk said I can file a counter claim but I have no way of knowing what my expenses will be if I have to attend court. Can a claim be updated later?

A counterclaim is where you have an cause of action against them - for example a data protection breach. (We state on here that legal advice should never be taken from a court clerk... wink.gif)

You are talking about costs I believe which are (normally) decided after the hearing. These are generally limited under small claims rules unless unreasonable behaviour occurs. (Pursuing a dead duck might convince a judge) You bring your costs schedule with you to the hearing...

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 13:47


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 13:43
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Yes, you need to get out your thread, and read up! We will not repeat everything here

You must go ONLINE and file your AOS ONLINE. YOU MUST DO THIS NOW.
Tell us your issue date
Once you acknowledge, NOT filing a defence yet!, you get 33 days from date of issue for the corut to receive your defence.

You DO NOT send ANY evidence with your defence. NONE. This is added muuuuuch later along.

A counterclaim CANNOT BE FOR COSTS OF THE CLAIM. This is realatively obvious. Costs of the claim are dealt with at the hearing.
You could however file a counterclaim for abuse of process (they have no authority) and a clearly vexatious claim with no chance of success. Potentially abuse of your data - they have no rights to process it (to start the claim) now their principal ordered them to cancel

I would also get onto their principal, telling them that their AGENT they are fully LIABLE for has started a claim, and you require them to tell their AGENT to discontonue the claim, else you wil not only counterclaim against the Agent, but against them as Principal, by adding them as a part 20 party to the claim. You require a list of dates now when they cannot attend a hearing, so you can add this to your DQ, as they will be required as a witness to confirm the cancellation requirement made of their agent.
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Brokenwire
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 14:04
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Thanks for the replies, and I am reading as much as I can. Sorry but I do not understand some of what Nosferatu is suggesting.
What is an AOS and why do I need to do that straight away?

Ok, I understand now that I cannot counterclaim. Thought that was for costs so appreciate that being cleared up.
I am not filing anything NOW as I have just been told I have 14 days to do anything. So am going to sit, think, read and take advice before sending anything back.

I see what Nosferatu is saying about counterclaiming as they already have been instructed to cease the claim twice and I have the principals emails confirming this. How much would that be for, should I match their claim?

I understand you last para, as that is what I want to do, make the Principal ie the Hotel Manager, attend and be responsible for the actions of this company he has retained. Is what you are saying backed up in law?
Thanks as always for the advice.
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Jlc
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 14:16
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AOS = Acknowledge of Service. There's no reason to delay this - but acknowledging service you'll get an additional 14 days to submit your defence.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ostell
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 14:18
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AOS = Acknowledgement of Service. Do this now using the details and password on the form and you get 33 days from date of issue to get your defence to the court. Do not put anything in the defence when you acknowledgem, absolutley nothing.
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Redivi
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 14:23
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AOS : Acknowledgement of service

It gives you an extra 14 days to send the defence (33 from date of issue instead of 19)

If you fail to Acknowledge Service or deliver a defence within 19 days, ParkingEye is awarded a default judgment and it's game over
No situation exists when it would be better to delay

You wouldn't be the first to put the form to one side and forget or lose it - especially if you're preparing for a holiday

My cynical side can't help suspecting that ParkingEye deliberately issued this dubious claim in the holiday period with the intention to obtain a default judgment

This post has been edited by Redivi: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 14:23
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Brokenwire
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 14:37
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QUOTE (ostell @ Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 15:18) *
AOS = Acknowledgement of Service. Do this now using the details and password on the form and you get 33 days from date of issue to get your defence to the court. Do not put anything in the defence when you acknowledgem, absolutley nothing.


I have literally just got back from our family holiday today and was checking the post! So a bit panicked that the date may have gone past as we have been away for 2 weeks.

It was issued 16th July. Can i acknowledge tomorrow and not file a defence un til later then?
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