HELP Manchester Oxford Road Bus Lane Contravention Options

[Flying Doctor]

Hello,
I am just the latest in over 150,000 poor Mancunians that have been served a Fixed Penalty Notice for contravening the Bus Lane in Oxford Road, Manchester. Please does anyone have a successful appeal letter that they could share? The signage is clearly inadequate. and we looked hard for signs without success, before inadvertently driving into Oxford Road.

Any advice or guidance would be most gratefully received

Thanks in advance

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[Jlc]

Presumably the council are pursuing? If so, this thread needs to be in the decrim forum.

Hit the '! Report' and ask a mod to move it for you. They'll want a scrubbed scan of the paperwork you've received.

[cp8759]

Is it a penalty charge notice form the council, or a fixed penalty from the police?

[Flying Doctor]

Is it a penalty charge notice form the council, or a fixed penalty from the police?

It's a Penalty Charge Notice from Manchester City Council

[peterguk]

Press "report" and ask a mod to move thread to correct forum.

[cp8759]

There are locations in Manchester where the signage is very poor, and even one where the tribunal has described the signage as "hopeless". For now, upload the PCN in full, redacting just your name and address. If you run out of space, use imgur.com to host the images.

[Flying Doctor]

Thank you for your quick responses
I enclose the BUS Lane PCN
I have sent an appeal on the Manchester City Council website

Any further advice greatly appreciated

Thanks again

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[peterguk]

I have sent an appeal

Which said?

[cp8759]

From the video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvkdgLve1UQ it looks like you were already travelling along Oxford Street and must have passed these signs: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4747202,-...6384!8i8192

What was the basis of your representations to the council?

[Flying Doctor]

My representation was about inadequate signage. They have just rejected it Predictable and the council act as judge and jury for themselves. I'll have little choice but to pay, but since over 350,000
drivers have been penalised. https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/new...s-made-15044798
My personal view is that this is completely outrageous, and that the council are behaving completely unreasonably. Sadly, typical of Mancunian public services
Thanks for your help everyone

[cp8759]

The council are not judge and jury, there is an independent Traffic Penalty Tribunal. If you think you shouldn't have to pay then by all means appeal, but I'm not 100% sure what the basis of your appeal is. Are you saying these signs are inadequate?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4747202,-...6384!8i8192

If so, why?

[Flying Doctor]

The signage is certainly inadequate further back along Oxford Road (and was judged to be 'hopeless' by one tribunal). You are technically correct that there is a tribunal, but the probability of success is low, and the time and effort required in appealing is not worth the £30 it has cost me to simply pay. My personal opinion is that these signs to not make it clear that the entire road is buses only - since there was previously a bus-lane on the left of each side of the road, to which i (as it turns out incorrectly) thought the signs applied. Since over 350,000 people have apparently been penalised, it would appear that I'm not the only person who found the signs inadequate

[Incandescent]

The signage is certainly inadequate further back along Oxford Road (and was judged to be 'hopeless' by one tribunal). You are technically correct that there is a tribunal, but the probability of success is low, and the time and effort required in appealing is not worth the £30 it has cost me to simply pay. My personal opinion is that these signs to not make it clear that the entire road is buses only - since there was previously a bus-lane on the left of each side of the road, to which i (as it turns out incorrectly) thought the signs applied. Since over 350,000 people have apparently been penalised, it would appear that I'm not the only person who found the signs inadequate

Maybe not, but the real problem is that you and almost all of the other 350000 just coughed-up. Only a very small percentage take matters to the adjudicators. What makes you think the probability of success is low ? In fact it is high, not low, but of course the law has been artfully constructed to create a double-or-quits gamble if you take the matter to adjudication. Until the numbers taking matters to adjudication gets significant, the councils just laugh all the way to the bank.

[cp8759]

The signage is certainly inadequate further back along Oxford Road (and was judged to be 'hopeless' by one tribunal).

That's irrelevant as you weren't given a PCN there.

You are technically correct that there is a tribunal, but the probability of success is low

Actually the success rates at the tribunal hover at around 50%, and for cases that have the benefit of out advice I dare say the success rate is significantly higher (also because we don't advise going to the tribunal if the case is hopeless)

My personal opinion is that these signs to not make it clear that the entire road is buses only - since there was previously a bus-lane on the left of each side of the road, to which i (as it turns out incorrectly) thought the signs applied. Since over 350,000 people have apparently been penalised, it would appear that I'm not the only person who found the signs inadequate

The signs mean "no motor vehicles", if you're driving a car then for all practical purposes it's the same as a no entry sign. The fact that you might not be aware of the significance of the "no motor vehicles" sign is neither here nor there. Sorry to be blunt but while many bus lane PCNs in Manchester have been wrongly issued, I don't think your one fits into this category. The simple truth of the matter is you don't appear to have had any valid grounds of appeal, so paying the discounted penalty was probably the sensible thing to do.

[Flying Doctor]

Thank you I appreciate your trouble in responding, and we will have to agree to differ on the clarity of the signage. I also concluded that my chance of success in a tribunal was low, so paid. The fundamental issue is that many many people have been entrapped (and I use the word advisedly) by demonstrably inadequate signage, but a culture that is quick to penalise and slow to respond to widespread grievance from otherwise responsible motorists. Manchester City Council have no incentive to improve signage, and at least 10 million reasons to maintain the status quo.

[cp8759]

The thing to ask yourself is, if those signs had been no entry signs, would you have driven down that road?