Speed camera obstructed by road sign. |
Helping the motorist get justice 
Helping the motorist get justice
Speed camera obstructed by road sign. |
 Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 13:00
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 27 Jun 2014 Member No.: 71,527  |
Just received NIP for speeding in a 40 limit. Have viewed the photos on the police web site . The camera is a manned device positioned in front of the car, on the opposite side of a left hand bend on a dual carriageway. The range from camera to car is 169 meters and the image includes a road direction sign in foreground that is obscuring the offside front corner of the car. I would have thought the view of the car should be completely unobstructed to avoid any risk of a false reading. Might I have grounds to challenge the reading because of this partial obstruction?
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Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 13:00
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Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 13:22
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#2
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 Member Group: Members Posts: 41,583 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Can you post the picture?
The sign wasn't moving so it wouldn't contribute to the received signal. The images provided are extracts from a video, so may not also be the point of capture. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 15:02
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 27 Jun 2014 Member No.: 71,527 |
Don't think I can copy and upload the image. If I can I will. Did wonder about the actual point of capture but if this is the image they choose to present as evidence might the obstruction allow for reasonable doubt.
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Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 15:09
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,317 Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,602 |
QUOTE (Manfred2 @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 15:02)  Don't think I can copy and upload the image. If I can I will. Did wonder about the actual point of capture but if this is the image they choose to present as evidence might the obstruction allow for reasonable doubt. Reasonable doubt that the alleged speed was actually that of the sign? Good luck with that! |
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Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 15:16
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#5
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 Member Group: Members Posts: 56,261 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
QUOTE (Manfred2 @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 15:02) Don't think I can copy and upload the image. Try doing a screenshot the editing to just the image in a photoediting suite and then host on an external site like tinypic or flikr and using the image tags (read the FAQs). If (as seems likely) it was a laser device used, it sends out a series of brief 'flashes' and measures the time until it sees it reflected, knowing the speed of light it can work out the range, it then uses this rate of change of range to calculate the speed, it then carries on doing this to see if the return times change as it predicted based on the calculated speed from the first few, if it tallies it gets a result. It either measured the speed of the sign or your car, one can't interfere with the other as the range result wouldn't tally. They are not 'fool proof' but errors are relatively few (probably significantly less than 1%). This post has been edited by The Rookie: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 16:14 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 16:09
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#6
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 Member Group: Members Posts: 13,581 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
It would be a long odds gamble to opt for court and plead not guilty on that basis. The prosecution are liable to call an expert to tell the court the sign could not interfere with the speed reading, and you will have to pay for his costs, on top of losing the guilty plea discount and/or losing the chance of a fixed penalty or course.
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Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 18:22
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 27 Jun 2014 Member No.: 71,527 |
Don't think I can copy and upload the image. If I can I will. Did wonder about the actual point of capture but if this is the image they choose to present as evidence might the obstruction allow for reasonable doubt.
Thanks to The Rookie for explaining the mechanics, can see that the sign won't have had any impact so will have to bite the bullet on this one. |
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Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 18:49
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,583 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
I wouldn’t attempt a defence unless you know you weren’t speeding. I suspect you know you were and (quite reasonably) exploring avenues.
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 19:04
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 972 Joined: 9 Oct 2016 Member No.: 87,665 |
QUOTE (Manfred2 @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 18:22) Don't think I can copy and upload the image. If I can I will. Did wonder about the actual point of capture but if this is the image they choose to present as evidence might the obstruction allow for reasonable doubt. Thanks to The Rookie for explaining the mechanics, can see that the sign won't have had any impact so will have to bite the bullet on this one. You have to also bear in mind that the image given to you isn’t what they’ve chosen to ‘present as evidence’. It’s what they’ve chosen to provide to you, presumably, to assist you in identifying the driver. The evidence, were this to go to court, would potentially be a completely different set of images. |
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Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 19:05
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#10
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 Member Group: Members Posts: 2,356 Joined: 30 Jun 2008 From: Landan Member No.: 20,731 |
QUOTE (Manfred2 @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 18:22) Don't think I can copy and upload the image. If I can I will. Did wonder about the actual point of capture but if this is the image they choose to present as evidence might the obstruction allow for reasonable doubt. They will have a whole video of evidence to choose from, none of which they are obligated to provide until you plead not guilty and are heading to court. Any photos provided prior to that time are provided simply to assist the keeper with identifying the driver--any they may or may not include the "money shot". --Churchmouse |
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