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PCN - Parking Suspension: NO CLEAR SIGN, Parking late at night to find the next morning I received a PCN
Orlando1234
post Fri, 30 Sep 2022 - 14:55
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Hello all,

I'd love some advice on the PCN I just received from Hammersmith and Fulham Council. I parked my car on the 22nd late at night outside my house and I woke up to find a PCN on my car and someone trying to move my car.

The photos they have provided and the ones I am going to use are attached.


I am saying:

Dear Hammersmith and Fulham Council,

I am appealing against the PCN, as I was unaware of the parking suspension signs.

As you can see by the photos I have taken it is clear that the signage was inadequate in respect of this bay to inform me the motorist of the suspension applicable. As there was no sign near the parking bays that are being suspended.

What is immediately obvious is that the authorisation requires the use of a 3-sided yellow suspension sign, with the dimensions and colour being specified. It is clear the photo you have supplied does not show the sign being a 3 sided yellow suspension sign. As well as of the fact that the photo you have provided is of a sign that could be at the end of the street (I cannot see where it is taken as it's not near my house nor my car), which is nowhere near where I park my car. I returned home late at night after being with my grandfather (who will testify to me staying) on the 22nd and saw no sign in the area of where I parked my car.

I'm a habitual user of the bay and had no reason to suspect that, at 09:00am the bay was other than available for parking/waiting. I did not see the sign which was located at the end of the street or where your photo was taken. You can see by my photos attached that there is a clear sign post whereby a Parking Suspension Sign could be attached, this sign post being the closest one to the bay that was technically being suspended.

Kind regards,

Orlando

I'd love to know what everyone thinks on here as I really don't think it's fair for me to pay this fine.

Thank you for any and all help.


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post Fri, 30 Sep 2022 - 14:55
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stamfordman
post Fri, 30 Sep 2022 - 15:12
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Post the PCN and location. It's pointless hiding the location.

What is the exact layout of the bay - parking sign(s), where suspension sign was, where car was.

But we can see best on Google maps.
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Orlando1234
post Mon, 3 Oct 2022 - 10:31
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The suspension signs where down the street as well as the other side of the road. So my car was at number 54, but the closest lamp post / area to put the suspension was the photo I took with the big red circle red it. The other suspension signs weren't anywhere near the bay that is suspended.

I've also seen in certain areas in London that some sides have different parking numbers / rules and this is one of the reasons why I think it's unfair to assume that I need to look around the streets to see if I can park in my usual spot.

The photos I've attached - RED is where the council should of put up the signs and in BLUE is where they did put them up.

Thank you for your help




QUOTE (stamfordman @ Fri, 30 Sep 2022 - 16:12) *
Post the PCN and location. It's pointless hiding the location.

What is the exact layout of the bay - parking sign(s), where suspension sign was, where car was.

But we can see best on Google maps.


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stamfordman
post Mon, 3 Oct 2022 - 10:53
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This is the road:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.480906,-0.2...6384!8i8192

There are various bays. A bay is only controlled by its parking sign, not by a sign in another bay so forget those.

So what bay were you in and what sign(s) and suspension sign(s) were in place in that bay.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Mon, 3 Oct 2022 - 10:53
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 3 Oct 2022 - 11:40
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There is a good argument to be made here, but we need more info. Post the PCN


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cp8759
post Thu, 6 Oct 2022 - 09:26
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Post the PCN with the VRM and PCN numbers visible, it is really important that we have a look at all the council enforcement pictures. It's not unheard of for a CEO to photograph a car in one bay, and then photograph a sign in another, we've had a couple of cases like that recently.


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Orlando1234
post Mon, 10 Oct 2022 - 12:02
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This is what I think is exactly happened - The CEO has walked to my car and walked to another lamp post down the road with the sign on.

The exact photos of the PCN taken are here: https://we.tl/t-TmjEL0WCvr

Their response / PCN is also scanned on the link above. If you have a look at one of the images that has a red circle around the signpost, my car was parked to the far right. It was parked outside the house that had a temporary suspension.

Also, does it matter that the signpost did not have a 3D element, it was a flat signpost?

Thank you again!

QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 3 Oct 2022 - 11:53) *
This is the road:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.480906,-0.2...6384!8i8192

There are various bays. A bay is only controlled by its parking sign, not by a sign in another bay so forget those.

So what bay were you in and what sign(s) and suspension sign(s) were in place in that bay.


If you see my latest post - You have all of their photos as well as the one I took with the red circles proving that there are multiple other sign posts that could of been used, all of which are closer to those bays/signposts.
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stamfordman
post Mon, 10 Oct 2022 - 12:43
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You are making this hard work but I gather you were at end of this bay:

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4809419,-0....6384!8i8192


Where there is a long distance to the parking sign where there was also only a 2D suspension sign but I can't see any other posts between your car and the parking sign.

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cp8759
post Mon, 10 Oct 2022 - 17:57
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The bay is a bit long for just 1 sign, I measure just over 37 yards from the sign to the end of the bay. The authorised sign https://assets.dft.gov.uk/trafficauths/case-3521.pdf is 3D so you can certainly argue that a flat one isn't adequate.

Please post the actual PCN.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Mon, 10 Oct 2022 - 17:57


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Orlando1234
post Tue, 11 Oct 2022 - 13:44
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Hi guys,

Thank you for the help.

I was parked outside house number 54, where the black BMW is parked in google maps (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4809419,-0.2122435,3a,90y,23.51h,58.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk4AVSDS5CzOexVBrzRdIGQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)

The closest signpost is two bays up towards Munster Road (the main road), this signpost has HANNEL ROAD on it, as well as all of the standard parking information.

PCN
Contravention Description: Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space - shared use bay -- All the photos and scanned PCN is in this link. https://we.tl/t-TmjEL0WCvr
I'm sorry that I can't attach all the images, for some reason I can't change the file size.


At the moment I am going to claim against the fact the signpost is not 3D and not clearly visible, as well as that being in violation of section 64 and 65 (https://assets.dft.gov.uk/trafficauths/case-3521.pdf). BUT I feel the most important part is to reiterate the fact that the best place to make everyone aware that there is a parking suspension is to use the signposts/lampposts closest to the bays that are affected by the suspension.

What do you experts think? Again thank you for your help

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cp8759
post Thu, 13 Oct 2022 - 19:16
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Suspension logs:





CEO pics:









Can you show us the actual PCN please? Post both sides with no redactions, and please use imgur to embed the images.


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