Received x2 Strange NIPs in the Post |
Received x2 Strange NIPs in the Post |
Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 16:58
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 29 Jul 2017 Member No.: 93,277 |
Evening all,
I'll try to keep this as brief as I can. Any help regarding this topic would be greatly appreciated. This morning I received two NIPs for the dates 18/07/18 and 19/07/18 between both of the same Average Speed Cameras, and at the exact same time! Both NIPs state that I was travelling, on the 18th, at 50mph and for the 19th at 49mph, but both state I was clocked at exactly 5:50AM to the minute. The speed limit for this particular stretch of road is 40mph. I'm aware that I have to send both documents off and I have a bit of time to do so - I'm struggling to believe that I was clocked at the exact same time, a day apart, on both days, on a road I've been driving on for nearly 2 years, fully aware of the speed limit. I was not speeding at all as I never do on these roads (as I said I've been driving the same route to work for nearly two years). What are your thoughts on this? Could it be an error? As usual, no supporting evidence attached. Do I ask them for photographs in aid of identifying the driver? Many thanks in advance! |
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Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 16:58
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Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 17:28
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,195 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Coincidence happens, presumably the same journey at about the same time, so why not the same minute ?
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 17:32
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 29 Jul 2017 Member No.: 93,277 |
Coincidence happens, presumably the same journey at about the same time, so why not the same minute ? Of course, however I never leave for work the same time, and do the exact same speed. Road and traffic conditions are always different in the morning, I find it hard to believe I was picked up twice at the exact same time to the minute. |
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Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 17:37
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,195 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
I think it’s more likely correct than not.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 17:41
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 29 Jul 2017 Member No.: 93,277 |
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Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 17:52
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
I think it’s more likely correct than not. Do you think they're likely to throw one out and proceed with the other or just serve them both? May be looking at a Course, a fine and 3pts. Different days, no reason why they would not pursue both. (A course and 3 points would be the usual outcome) For starters, ask for the photo's to assist in the driver notification. Another poster the other day got the photo's, the timestamps and the distance between the cameras. (But they don't have to provide this) This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 17:52 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 17:55
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 29 Jul 2017 Member No.: 93,277 |
I think it’s more likely correct than not. Do you think they're likely to throw one out and proceed with the other or just serve them both? May be looking at a Course, a fine and 3pts. Different days, no reason why they would not pursue both. (A course and 3 points would be the usual outcome) For starters, ask for the photo's to assist in the driver notification. Another poster the other day got the photo's, the timestamps and the distance between the cameras. (But they don't have to provide this) Hmm, it's just very strange. I drive that route every day and never speed, but somehow, with a day apart, I rack up 2 in the nearly two years I've been driving! Ah well. Do I do this via the driver identification form? Thanks for your informative reply. |
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Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 18:00
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
No, you must request photo's before returning the nomination. (After all if you're asking for photo's to assist in the identification why would you return the nomination?)
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 18:06
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 29 Jul 2017 Member No.: 93,277 |
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Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 18:15
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
...but the 28 day clock to nominate remains regardless.
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 18:51
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,167 Joined: 6 Oct 2012 Member No.: 57,558 |
Yes, so if the photos do not come back in time you still have to nominate the driver.
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Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 19:25
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 29 Jul 2017 Member No.: 93,277 |
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Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 19:45
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,723 Joined: 3 Apr 2006 From: North Hampshire Member No.: 5,183 |
Once the photos are received, should they send them, what would be the next steps? If there are no clear images of the driver...do the police have a case? Cheers. The photos only have to identify the vehicle. You, as the registered keeper, will need to name the driver. Failing to do so will likely see 12 points, 2 large fines (+ costs etc), followed by a 6 month totting ban. |
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Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 19:53
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
...but the 28 day clock to nominate remains regardless. Once the photos are received, should they send them, what would be the next steps? If there are no clear images of the driver...do the police have a case? Cheers. Clear images of the driver are very rare, as far as you are concerned, what is important is whether it is your car, it is shown speeding and the time, date and location tie up with the NIPs you have received. If all that is correct, you will know, despite your doubts, that you were speeding on these two occasions. It is not up to the police to identify the driver, that is up to you, as the registered keeper. That is the way the law works. -------------------- |
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Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 19:54
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
If you write into the police with an apologetic letter saying careful driver, never usually speed, and asking whether as the two offences were so close together they could consider combining them into one offence, anecdotally this can be successful. The police are aware that points are there to encourage drivers to amend their driving over time, and adding on multiple offences at once doesn't achieve this.
They have considerable discretion to cancel one of the tickets - but obviously don't mention that you doubt one of the offences happened as it will likely get their backs up. As has been said average speed cameras are very reliable when set up correctly so it does sound almost certainly very bad luck rather than a mistake by the police bearing in mind it is a route you would have been travelling on or about that time both days. |
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Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 21:27
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 29 Jul 2017 Member No.: 93,277 |
Once the photos are received, should they send them, what would be the next steps? If there are no clear images of the driver...do the police have a case? Cheers. The photos only have to identify the vehicle. You, as the registered keeper, will need to name the driver. Failing to do so will likely see 12 points, 2 large fines (+ costs etc), followed by a 6 month totting ban. Thanks for the information. ...but the 28 day clock to nominate remains regardless. Once the photos are received, should they send them, what would be the next steps? If there are no clear images of the driver...do the police have a case? Cheers. Clear images of the driver are very rare, as far as you are concerned, what is important is whether it is your car, it is shown speeding and the time, date and location tie up with the NIPs you have received. If all that is correct, you will know, despite your doubts, that you were speeding on these two occasions. It is not up to the police to identify the driver, that is up to you, as the registered keeper. That is the way the law works. Thanks for this. I'll just have to accept it was me. The times travelling check out, as I'd be driving to work at the time, however I'm just suspicious of the two days being the EXACT same time. Likely a coincidence, yes, a very rare one. I'd just have to accept that these things happen. If you write into the police with an apologetic letter saying careful driver, never usually speed, and asking whether as the two offences were so close together they could consider combining them into one offence, anecdotally this can be successful. The police are aware that points are there to encourage drivers to amend their driving over time, and adding on multiple offences at once doesn't achieve this. They have considerable discretion to cancel one of the tickets - but obviously don't mention that you doubt one of the offences happened as it will likely get their backs up. As has been said average speed cameras are very reliable when set up correctly so it does sound almost certainly very bad luck rather than a mistake by the police bearing in mind it is a route you would have been travelling on or about that time both days. I was thinking this - I've had no previous speeding tickets, and travel that route everyday and have done in two vehicles, for two years. Perhaps they'll be lenient in my apology and combine the two, or seek alternative routes instead of the points (speed awareness / larger fine without the course etc). I'll have to draft a letter to them. Thanks for the body of text - it was extremely helpful. |
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Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 21:37
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
The police can’t impose a “larger fine without the course”, their only option is a fixed penalty.
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 21:54
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 29 Jul 2017 Member No.: 93,277 |
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Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 00:08
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,356 Joined: 30 Jun 2008 From: Landan Member No.: 20,731 |
Send your request for photos to "help identify the driver" in both offences in a single letter, mentioning the two dates, times and speeds so they can clearly see what you found odd about them (even if you don't spell it out). If they made a mistake, they might spot it...
--Churchmouse |
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Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 06:23
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 29 Jul 2017 Member No.: 93,277 |
Send your request for photos to "help identify the driver" in both offences in a single letter, mentioning the two dates, times and speeds so they can clearly see what you found odd about them (even if you don't spell it out). If they made a mistake, they might spot it... --Churchmouse Unfortunately, I've already gone down the apology route as many on there have said their 'Home Office approved' devices were likely to be right. |
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