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[NIP Wizard] Not sure if the NIP went to a previous owner first, how to tell?
Evlpst2
post Sat, 14 Apr 2018 - 21:10
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - March 2018
Date of the NIP: - 34 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 35 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - m6 Staffordshire j14 to j15, UNITED Kingdom
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Having just driven up to blackpool to pick the car up as i has just purchased it, I was driving back down. The speed camera was on a bridge over the opposite lane and recorded me going 90mph. I remember seeing the camera at the time.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - No
Was there a valid reason for the NIP's late arrival? - Unsure
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sat, 14 Apr 2018 21:10:22 +0000
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post Sat, 14 Apr 2018 - 21:10
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Jlc
post Sat, 14 Apr 2018 - 21:14
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Almost certainly went elsewhere first. Grab your v5 and the doc ref date at the bottom of page 2 in DD MM YY format is when the DVLA updated the records. If the NIP is dated before this date then the previous keeper details would be returned.

The driver needs naming regardless.

Or you could ask them...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Logician
post Sat, 14 Apr 2018 - 22:48
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As Jlc says, and provided there was no lower limit than 70 in force, that should bring a fixed penalty of £100 + 3 points. Do not forget to tell your insurers probably on renewal, but possibly immediately, check your policy.


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The Slithy Tove
post Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 13:46
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You have pretty much answered your own question.
QUOTE (Evlpst2 @ Sat, 14 Apr 2018 - 22:10) *
Having just driven up to blackpool to pick the car up as i has just purchased it

At the time of the incident, your name and address would not be the one held against the car, it would still be registered to eh previous owner/dealership/whatever. The first NIP would almost certainly have gone there, and eventually caught up with you once the paperwork was sorted.

This post has been edited by The Slithy Tove: Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 13:47
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Evlpst2
post Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 14:51
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Looking at the v5, it states the same date as the offence. Surely it would have been a couple of days later that they sent it off and did the lookup as it sounds like the car details were updated upon purchase online...

A point of question... if I were to challenge on the basis of it being over 14 days what is the process associated and would that involve court appearance etc. If so it sounds like a rather big gamble...
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Logician
post Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 15:19
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The day of the offence was the day you collected the car, unless you sent off the change of owner to the DVLA in advance of that, did you do that? Or are you looking at the date of change of ownership, rather than the date next to the doc ref number?

To mount a defence on the basis of the NIP being over 14 days, you would have to go to court and challenge the prosecution on the basis that the NIP had not been sent to the person registered as the keeper of the vehicle at the time of the commission of the offence. As the police obviously want to use the latest information available to them, showing that they did not would be an uphill struggle. I would say that your chances of success are between nil and zero, and unfortunately if you lose you also lose the chance of a fixed penalty and are liable for costs of up to £620. It would indeed be a big gamble.


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cp8759
post Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 15:25
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QUOTE (Logician @ Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 16:19) *
... you lose you also lose the chance of a fixed penalty and are liable for costs of up to £620.

£620 is the starting point, there is no upper limit.
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666
post Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 15:49
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 16:25) *
QUOTE (Logician @ Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 16:19) *
... you lose you also lose the chance of a fixed penalty and are liable for costs of up to £620.

£620 is the starting point, there is no upper limit.


It's the starting point of what the prosecution ask for. The court may not agree.
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Jlc
post Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 16:15
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QUOTE (Evlpst2 @ Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 15:51) *
Looking at the v5, it states the same date as the offence.

See my post #2 - this date: (If the v5 was posted for change of keeper then it can't be the same day)

Attached Image


This post has been edited by Jlc: Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 16:16


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Evlpst2
post Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 18:12
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Yep, that’s exactly where it says the same date as the offence. Bottom of the second page to the right of the doc reference in the same place that you have pictured. My bet would be that is was changed by the dealer online.

Although based upon your responses sounds like way to much of a gamble and probably just worth swallowing it.
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Logician
post Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 18:47
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 16:25) *
QUOTE (Logician @ Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 16:19) *
... you lose you also lose the chance of a fixed penalty and are liable for costs of up to £620.
£620 is the starting point, there is no upper limit.


No court is going to award costs exceeding £620 for a case like this.



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Jlc
post Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 19:44
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QUOTE (Evlpst2 @ Sun, 15 Apr 2018 - 19:12) *
Yep, that’s exactly where it says the same date as the offence. Bottom of the second page to the right of the doc reference in the same place that you have pictured. My bet would be that is was changed by the dealer online.

Although based upon your responses sounds like way to much of a gamble and probably just worth swallowing it.

Ok, electronic update it seems.

Then it seems the Police checked the PNC pretty rapidly and hadn’t had the update. (Their system lags by 1 day)

If so, it's still a risky defence imho.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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