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Application for Name and Address - Section 172
7builder
post Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 10:04
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Good morning all,

On Monday 9th April I received the attached letter from Gloucestershire Constabulary which I initially thought was a NIP but having used the NIP Wizard I am no longer sure. If it is a NIP then it arrived 15 days after the alleged event having been sent on Friday 6th April by 1st class post.

I have concerns about the content and information in the letter as it refers to an event at a supermarket car park but does not state a time which is going to be difficult to determine who out of the 3 possible drivers were driving at the time. The letter also asks me to return the details of the driver in the stamped addressed envelope enclosed but there wasn't one provided. Then going on to the part where I am supposed to fill in the driver details (section B) there is a statement at the bottom that refers to Section A and B but there is no section A anywhere on the form.

How should I proceed with this as I am fully aware of the consequences of not complying with section 172 but there are so many inconsistencies with the letter I have been sent?



This post has been edited by 7builder: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 10:13
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post Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 10:04
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BaggieBoy
post Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 10:12
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QUOTE (7builder @ Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 11:04) *
Good morning all,

On Monday 9th April I received the attached letter from Gloucestershire Constabulary which I initially thought was a NIP but having used the NIP Wizard I am no longer sure. If it is a NIP then it arrived 15 days after the alleged event having been sent on Friday 6th April by 1st class post.

I have concerns about the content and information in the letter as it refers to an event at a supermarket car park but does not state a time which is going to be difficult to determine who out of the 3 possible drivers were driving at the time. The letter also asks me to return the details of the driver in the stamped addressed envelope enclosed but there wasn't one provided. Then going on to the part where I am supposed to fill in the driver details (section B) there is a statement at the bottom that refers to Section A and B but there is no section A anywhere on the form.

How should I proceed with this as I am fully aware of the consequences of not complying with section 172 but there are so many inconsistencies with the letter I have been sent?


The image hasn't enough resolution to be readable. Since the letter is regarding an accident, there is no 14 day limit in play here.

This post has been edited by BaggieBoy: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 10:12
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7builder
post Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 10:17
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HI BaggieBoy I have added a better image so you should be able to read it now.
There was no accident on the day in question or no reference to one either.

This post has been edited by 7builder: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 10:17
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peterguk
post Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 10:17
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QUOTE (7builder @ Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 11:04) *
How should I proceed with this


Right now you are simply being asked for driver details at the time of the alleged offence. Ensure you reply with driver detai9ls within 28 days.


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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 10:26
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 11:17) *
QUOTE (7builder @ Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 11:04) *
How should I proceed with this


Right now you are simply being asked for driver details at the time of the alleged offence. Ensure you reply with driver detai9ls within 28 days.

Except there doesnt appear to be a time - just a date

Maybe give a timeline - between x and y, this driver, between y and z, this driver, on the day in question?
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7builder
post Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 10:35
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I'll call them as I don't even have an address to reply to as the stamped addressed envelope wasn't included
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Logician
post Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 10:36
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QUOTE
..............Section A and B but there is no section A anywhere on the form.


Perhaps Section A was the part you have redacted, that is the only way it makes sense. As above, giving a timeline for each driver is the best way to respond and you will have to reply to the Central Ticket Office at the address given as you have not been given an SAE.


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7builder
post Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 11:01
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As the date of the incident is way outside the timeframe to receive a NIP and there wasn't an accident what other options would the police have to deal with this once they have established who was driving?
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Jlc
post Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 11:04
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Do you have the V5C?

If so, what’s the doc ref date at the bottom of page 2 in DD MM YY format?


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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southpaw82
post Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 11:06
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If the incident took place in a car park the allegation is most likely in relation to a bump. There is therefore an allegation of an accident. As such, no NIP is required, subject (IIRC) to any argument by the defendant that he was unaware of any accident.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 11:33
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QUOTE (7builder @ Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 12:01) *
As the date of the incident is way outside the timeframe to receive a NIP and there wasn't an accident what other options would the police have to deal with this once they have established who was driving?

No accident the Keeper was aware of. That doesnt mean there was no accident. You need to be aware of that distinction.
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7builder
post Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 11:52
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An off duty policeman was supposed to have filed a report having witnessed my car drifting and wheel spinning in the car park so no accident. As a policeman filed a report I asked what time the incident took place. I was called back and told it was between 18:30-21:00 - basically when the event took place. I asked if I could be provided with the time of the actual incident as this would be in the officers report but this is apparently not available. I was then told during the phone call to try and determine who was driving between 18:30 and 21:00 but if I was unable to put I should return the form blank and put a note in there that it was not possible to do so. I voiced my concern in doing so as I was fully aware of the consequences of not complying to Section 172 nd the caller from the ticket office said that was not a problem as she would add a note to my file stating that was what she has advised and also recorded our conversation.
Anyone have any thoughts?
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The Rookie
post Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 12:35
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I certainly wouldn’t be counting on what she said.

Unless one of the possible drivers mentions driving in the manner described, reply naming the drivers across the relevant time frame with times and allow the Police to sort it out with the witness.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Logician
post Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 12:44
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I would also mention that their letter was received by you 15 days after the alleged incident, as the allegation is inconsiderate driving which would not be the appropriate charge if an accident had occurred.

This post has been edited by Logician: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 12:45


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The Rookie
post Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 12:47
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Is it? They may be considering DWDCA or even dangerous driving.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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7builder
post Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 13:00
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No NIP within 14 days so would they be able to prosecute for DWDCA or Dangerous now?
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 13:40
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I dont believe Dangerous needs a NIP within 14 days. Quite a few offences dont.
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cp8759
post Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 13:46
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 14:40) *
I dont believe Dangerous needs a NIP within 14 days. Quite a few offences dont.

I've not checked later amendments but schedule 1 to the RTOA 1988 suggests otherwise.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 14:00
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Fair enough, hence "believe" not "know".

Either way, names have to be given otherwise the S172 is still an issue

This post has been edited by nosferatu1001: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 14:01
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The Rookie
post Thu, 12 Apr 2018 - 15:12
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No nip is required for ‘motor racing or trial of speed’.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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