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Accuracy of speed cameras
Blue23
post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 21:00
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Hi all, I’m new here so please excuse any stupidity in terms of my questions. smile.gif

I have today received a NIP stating I was doing 91mph on a dual carriage way at the end of May. Now, I don’t dispute that I was speeding and am an absoltue idiot for doing so no excuses! However I know for a fact that I was not doing 91mph purely because i looked at my speedometer as soon as I turned the bend and saw thee van and saw it between 80-85. So my question is how accurate are these cameras? Could my own speedometer be out by that much? I no I am wrong for speeding, my own fault for being distracted and tired. No excuses at all and I understand I need to pay a fine and receive points buy after research the 91 puts me into the next bracket according to new legislation. Now that would mean I was being further penalised.

Any advice grateful appreciated, very confused on how to proceed. I currrently don’t have any points and have New driving for 5 years. Thanks
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post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 21:00
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Blue23
post Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 10:07
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 11:01) *
QUOTE (Blue23 @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 10:51) *
So if I ask for pictures will that mean I forfeit the fixed penalty?

No, but you can only ask prior to naming the driver.

QUOTE (Blue23 @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 10:51) *
I’m just worried after reading these articles online that suggest penalties would be 4-6 points and a fine of up to 100% of my wage, is that not always the case?

Fixed penalties would normally be offered up to 95mph. The 4-6 points is only if it goes to court (and there's no reason why it should).


Thank you all so much,, you have all been so helpful. I don’t want to annoy the ‘nice fixed penalty people’ by asking for the picture, so I will just send back the NIP and hope they don’t feel the need to fine me any higher! Thanks again

This post has been edited by Blue23: Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 10:07
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Kickaha
post Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 10:55
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QUOTE (Blue23 @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 10:07) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 11:01) *
QUOTE (Blue23 @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 10:51) *
So if I ask for pictures will that mean I forfeit the fixed penalty?

No, but you can only ask prior to naming the driver.

QUOTE (Blue23 @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 10:51) *
I’m just worried after reading these articles online that suggest penalties would be 4-6 points and a fine of up to 100% of my wage, is that not always the case?

Fixed penalties would normally be offered up to 95mph. The 4-6 points is only if it goes to court (and there's no reason why it should).


Thank you all so much,, you have all been so helpful. I don’t want to annoy the ‘nice fixed penalty people’ by asking for the picture, so I will just send back the NIP and hope they don’t feel the need to fine me any higher! Thanks again

They cannot fine you more or give you more points, all they can do is refer it to court. There is no reason in this case for them to do that.
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Logician
post Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 10:58
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There does seem no reason to ask for the pictures other than to satisfy yourself, but adverse consequences are very unlikely.


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Blue23
post Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 12:02
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Ok. Thank you all smile.gif
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notmeatloaf
post Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 16:42
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To answer your original question the device itself is highly accurate in that it would have measured something at 91mph. The inaccuracies come from either

The fact that the beam diverges as it leaves the gun and if there is more than one speed returned it has to "guess" which is the right one - normally the strongest return. However, especially if you are next to a large vehicle like a van there is the chance that the gun will choose the wrong vehicle.

The fact that the device is manually aligned and, especially across large distances, the alignment can be off so that even though the crosshairs/superimposed dot in the gun scope appear to be on your vehicle, they are actually on a different vehicle.

A "slip" error where the operator drags the gun down the side of a vehicle leading to an inaccurate speed reading.

The police will tell you they have trained operators who are practically infallible. There are enough videos around to show that the errors do happen in real life. Unfortunately normally the only way of proving these is to get the entire video so you can spot discrepancies on other vehicles. The police normally make it very difficult to actually obtain the full video to prove this though.

In practical terms SP is exactly right, it is only worth worrying about if you either weren't speeding, or there was a big enough discrepancy to significantly affect the sentencing. The risk and hassle to run a successful Newton plea to get your speed down to 80mph and then pay a larger fine, costs and victim surcharge means it would only be worthwhile if you bang your head against a brick wall in your spare time.
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andy_foster
post Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 21:57
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QUOTE (Blue23 @ Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 22:00) *
Hi all, I’m new here so please excuse any stupidity in terms of my questions. smile.gif


As Mr Garrison, famously said, "there are no stupid questions"...

QUOTE
I have today received a NIP stating I was doing 91mph on a dual carriage way at the end of May. Now, I don’t dispute that I was speeding and am an absoltue idiot for doing so no excuses! However I know for a fact that I was not doing 91mph purely because i looked at my speedometer as soon as I turned the bend and saw thee van and saw it between 80-85. So my question is how accurate are these cameras?


You seem to have beaten me to the punchline. However, the obvious answer is that your question is simply utterly irrelevant for the reasons others have already given. The fixed penalty that you will be offered is the same for both speeds. As you "know for a fact" that you were not doing that speed, then clearly the camera must have been inaccurate, but I very much dount that you would be able to persuade anyone other than yourself of that "fact".

QUOTE
Could my own speedometer be out by that much?


Anything is possible. You would be committing a construction and use offence if your speedo was under-reading. However, it seems far more likely that your assessment that you are an idiot is correct than that your speedo actually is under-reading. The easiest way to test it would be to compare it to the speed displayed on a sat-nav.

QUOTE
I no I am wrong for speeding, my own fault for being distracted and tired. No excuses at all and I understand I need to pay a fine and receive points buy after research the 91 puts me into the next bracket according to new legislation. Now that would mean I was being further penalised.


As has been stated, your understanding is flawed (not helped by the deliberately misleading headlines in the mass media).

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 10:33) *
You can not plead not guilty to the offence of speeding (the actual speed only determines the punishment) as you’ve admitted it


Whilst I do not think it is prudent for the OP to plead not guilty, I am slightly concerned that there appears to be a significant gap in my own understanding of the law pertaining to the prohibition of persons admitting to an offence on an online forum from pleading not guilty.


--------------------
Andy

Millenial (noun): a person who is offended at being told "Suck it up, buttercup"
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122basy
post Sun, 8 Apr 2018 - 10:56
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 22:57) *
...
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 10:33) *
You can not plead not guilty to the offence of speeding (the actual speed only determines the punishment) as you’ve admitted it


Whilst I do not think it is prudent for the OP to plead not guilty, I am slightly concerned that there appears to be a significant gap in my own understanding of the law pertaining to the prohibition of persons admitting to an offence on an online forum from pleading not guilty.

A sudden moral issue perhaps.
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southpaw82
post Sun, 8 Apr 2018 - 12:31
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QUOTE (122basy @ Sun, 8 Apr 2018 - 11:56) *
QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 22:57) *
...
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 10:33) *
You can not plead not guilty to the offence of speeding (the actual speed only determines the punishment) as you’ve admitted it


Whilst I do not think it is prudent for the OP to plead not guilty, I am slightly concerned that there appears to be a significant gap in my own understanding of the law pertaining to the prohibition of persons admitting to an offence on an online forum from pleading not guilty.

A sudden moral issue perhaps.

Your mileage may differ but there’s no issue with putting the prosecution to proof (not that I think it’d be worth it here). "Golden thread" and all that.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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122basy
post Sun, 8 Apr 2018 - 15:03
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sun, 8 Apr 2018 - 13:31) *
QUOTE (122basy @ Sun, 8 Apr 2018 - 11:56) *
QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 22:57) *
...
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 10:33) *
You can not plead not guilty to the offence of speeding (the actual speed only determines the punishment) as you’ve admitted it


Whilst I do not think it is prudent for the OP to plead not guilty, I am slightly concerned that there appears to be a significant gap in my own understanding of the law pertaining to the prohibition of persons admitting to an offence on an online forum from pleading not guilty.

A sudden moral issue perhaps.

Your mileage may differ but there’s no issue with putting the prosecution to proof (not that I think it’d be worth it here). "Golden thread" and all that.

It's not unreasonable at all for the prosecution to prove the offence. laugh.gif It's up to the OP, who knows he committed the offence, to make the decision to have the prosecution prove the matter. As we all know it's not unheard of for the prosecution to err...just a gamble for the OP that they will after he says "not guilty" to something he knows he's done. It may offend some people's morals, others not.
I have to admit I am somewhat surprised it appears to offend MrRookie. smile.gif
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