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Accuracy of speed cameras
Blue23
post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 21:00
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Hi all, I’m new here so please excuse any stupidity in terms of my questions. smile.gif

I have today received a NIP stating I was doing 91mph on a dual carriage way at the end of May. Now, I don’t dispute that I was speeding and am an absoltue idiot for doing so no excuses! However I know for a fact that I was not doing 91mph purely because i looked at my speedometer as soon as I turned the bend and saw thee van and saw it between 80-85. So my question is how accurate are these cameras? Could my own speedometer be out by that much? I no I am wrong for speeding, my own fault for being distracted and tired. No excuses at all and I understand I need to pay a fine and receive points buy after research the 91 puts me into the next bracket according to new legislation. Now that would mean I was being further penalised.

Any advice grateful appreciated, very confused on how to proceed. I currrently don’t have any points and have New driving for 5 years. Thanks
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post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 21:00
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southpaw82
post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 21:19
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"I wasn’t going that fast" vs an approved device isn’t going to cut it, I’m afraid.


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Blue23
post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 21:35
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Thanks for your reply but that wasn’t my question. My question was in regards to the accuracy vs my Speedo! It’s not an excuse it’s a question. Have there been instances where the camera is wrong? I have a very old Fiat Punto, I doubt it’s even capable of that speed.

This post has been edited by Blue23: Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 21:35
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Jlc
post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 21:37
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End of May?



--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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southpaw82
post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 21:40
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QUOTE (Blue23 @ Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 22:35) *
Thanks for your reply but that wasn’t my question.


Think it was - a court will trust their device more than your recollection of what your speedo says.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Blue23
post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 21:42
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 22:37) *
End of May?


Sorry, March. My mistake

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 22:40) *
QUOTE (Blue23 @ Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 22:35) *
Thanks for your reply but that wasn’t my question.


Think it was - a court will trust their device more than your recollection of what your speedo says.


Exactly. THEIR device.
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southpaw82
post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 21:50
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QUOTE (Blue23 @ Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 22:42) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 22:40) *
QUOTE (Blue23 @ Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 22:35) *
Thanks for your reply but that wasn’t my question.


Think it was - a court will trust their device more than your recollection of what your speedo says.


Exactly. THEIR device.

Don’t follow you... it’s a device owned and operated by the police authority - who else would it be?


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peterguk
post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 21:52
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The device used to measure your speed, is in law, deemed to be working correctly.

If you wish to challenge it's accuracy, you'll need to convince the court the measured speed is incorrect - how will you do that?

Also, chances are, you were spotted and speed measured way before you saw the van.


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Jlc
post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 21:57
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The outcome for 80mph or 91mph is the same - 3 points £100. (Ignoring awareness course which wouldn’t be offered at 91mph)

You'll have a costly time at court unless you have something to disprove their approved device.

In the first instance, ask for a photo to assist in the identification of the driver. They usually supply but it doesn’t stop the 28 days to nominate the driver. They may send the 'money shot' to confirm the ping.

It is more likely you slowed after seeing the van and then looked at your speedo.

Speedo's will over read true speed. I would expect you had at least 95mph on it. Remember they can ping you at very long distances (up to 1km normally) so you may have been caught before you realised. (Unless you have changed the wheels by a significant margin)

If you have a sat nav you should be able to check how accurate your speedo is. (They are fairly accurate at steady speeds)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 21:59


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Blue23
post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 22:02
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Thank you all for your help! I was coming round a bend so the camera wouldn’t have got the picture before unless they can see around bends now? According to new laws 91 would be deemed band b which is 4-6 points!

I do have a satnav which said 83. This adds to the confusion. Sorry I didn’t no they were classed as accurate or I would have mentioned that.

This post has been edited by Blue23: Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 22:03
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peterguk
post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 22:07
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QUOTE (Blue23 @ Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:02) *
According to new laws 91 would be deemed band b which is 4-6 points!


As mentioned, you should be offered a CoFP - 3 points and £100 fine.


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Blue23
post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 22:08
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:07) *
QUOTE (Blue23 @ Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:02) *
According to new laws 91 would be deemed band b which is 4-6 points!


As mentioned, you should be offered a CoFP - 3 points and £100 fine.


Sorry I’m new to this, what’s a CoFP?
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peterguk
post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 22:09
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QUOTE (Blue23 @ Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:08) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:07) *
QUOTE (Blue23 @ Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:02) *
According to new laws 91 would be deemed band b which is 4-6 points!


As mentioned, you should be offered a CoFP - 3 points and £100 fine.


Sorry I’m new to this, what’s a CoFP?


Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty.


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Jlc
post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 22:09
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There are no new laws - the sentencing guidelines were updated.

But you won’t be going to court unless you want it to.

As you admit speeding then it seems folly. Ask for the pictures first...

This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 22:09


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Blue23
post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 22:16
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Yes I was speeding I fully take responsibility. Again please excuse my ignorance but why should I ask for pictures?

QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:09) *
QUOTE (Blue23 @ Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:08) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:07) *
QUOTE (Blue23 @ Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:02) *
According to new laws 91 would be deemed band b which is 4-6 points!


As mentioned, you should be offered a CoFP - 3 points and £100 fine.


Sorry I’m new to this, what’s a CoFP?


Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty.


Thank you so much
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Logician
post Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:20
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QUOTE (Blue23 @ Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:16) *
Again please excuse my ignorance but why should I ask for pictures?


Only to see the speed reading and that the camera was being pointed at your car, not another vehicle as you doubt the speed alleged.



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Jlc
post Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 07:13
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QUOTE (Logician @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 00:20) *
QUOTE (Blue23 @ Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:16) *
Again please excuse my ignorance but why should I ask for pictures?


Only to see the speed reading and that the camera was being pointed at your car, not another vehicle as you doubt the speed alleged.

Indeed - it's the possibility of getting 'evidence' as your next chance would be at court pleading not guilty for disclosure. (The fixed penalty will be off the table then)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 09:33
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Going to court and successfully arguing you were only doing 85 and not the 91 alleged (even if you succeed, and that’s far from a given) will result in a harsher penalty than the fixed penalty you are almost certain to be offered.

You can not plead not guilty to the offence of speeding (the actual speed only determines the punishment) as you’ve admitted it, so you’d be left pleading guilty and arguing the facts. Really doesn’t seem worth the effort, if you lose that argument you will suffer an even harsher penalty and costs are likely to be higher as well.


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Blue23
post Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 09:51
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 08:13) *
QUOTE (Logician @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 00:20) *
QUOTE (Blue23 @ Fri, 6 Apr 2018 - 23:16) *
Again please excuse my ignorance but why should I ask for pictures?


Only to see the speed reading and that the camera was being pointed at your car, not another vehicle as you doubt the speed alleged.

Indeed - it's the possibility of getting 'evidence' as your next chance would be at court pleading not guilty for disclosure. (The fixed penalty will be off the table then)


So if I ask for pictures will that mean I forfeit the fixed penalty? I’m just worried after reading these articles online that suggest penalties would be 4-6 points and a fine of up to 100% of my wage, is that not always the case?
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Jlc
post Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 10:01
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QUOTE (Blue23 @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 10:51) *
So if I ask for pictures will that mean I forfeit the fixed penalty?

No, but you can only ask prior to naming the driver.

QUOTE (Blue23 @ Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 10:51) *
I’m just worried after reading these articles online that suggest penalties would be 4-6 points and a fine of up to 100% of my wage, is that not always the case?

Fixed penalties would normally be offered up to 95mph. The 4-6 points is only if it goes to court (and there's no reason why it should).

This post has been edited by Jlc: Sat, 7 Apr 2018 - 10:01


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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