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Final NIP/S172
Pensioner
post Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 09:21
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I have received a very unwelcome NIP/S172 Request. (20% over limit) It is Headed "FINAL REQUEST FOR INFORMATION" There is no mention of reminder or of any previous notices.

The question I have is:

If a previous notice was issued, would returning the present one completed and signed admitting to being the drive at the time of the alleged offence constitute satisfying the S172 requirement fully. Or would it still be possible to resurrect what appears a notice that has not been received.

To clarify, I am not the registered keeper.
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post Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 09:21
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The Rookie
post Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 09:26
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If more than 28 days have elapsed since the original NIP/S172 to you was deemed served (2 working days after posting) then yes, the police could 'resurrect' it by summonsing you for that offence.

Would they do so if you replied reasonably promptly to this request? (they usually give you seven days to reply) No absolutely not, it is not their intention (despite what some may think) to 'create' extra offences, the camera units work in a reasonably 'fair' manner and only have an interest in prosecuting the original offence wherever possible.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Pensioner
post Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 09:42
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Thanks for a rapid response.

We have been away temporarily to allow remedial/renovation work and have just returned to find this. It was dated two weeks ago for an alleged offence nearly five months ago.

I will return it and hopefully get an educational course in how to lift the lead from my boots.
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peterguk
post Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 09:52
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QUOTE (Pensioner @ Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 10:42) *
Thanks for a rapid response.

We have been away temporarily to allow remedial/renovation work and have just returned to find this. It was dated two weeks ago for an alleged offence nearly five months ago.

I will return it and hopefully get an educational course in how to lift the lead from my boots.


How long does the reminder give you to respond? If you are outside of any stated period, then you're at risk of a summons for failing to provide driver information.

You won't be getting the offer of a course if 5 months have passed.

What was limit and alleged speed?

Either it'll be a summons to court or possibly a CoFP which will time out...

This post has been edited by peterguk: Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 09:58


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Pensioner
post Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 10:02
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 10:52) *
QUOTE (Pensioner @ Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 10:42) *
Thanks for a rapid response.

We have been away temporarily to allow remedial/renovation work and have just returned to find this. It was dated two weeks ago for an alleged offence nearly five months ago.

I will return it and hopefully get an educational course in how to lift the lead from my boots.


How long does the reminder give you to respond? If you are outside of any stated period, then you're at risk of a summons for failing to provide driver information.

You won't be getting the offer of a course if 5 months have passed.

What was limit and alleged speed?

Either it'll be a summons to court or possibly a CoFP which will time out...


How long does the reminder give you to respond?

It makes no mention of reminder. Respond time is 28 days

What was limit and alleged speed?

48 in 40


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StuartBu
post Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 10:02
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QUOTE (Pensioner @ Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 09:21) *
It is Headed "FINAL REQUEST FOR INFORMATION" There is no mention of reminder or of any

To clarify, I am not the registered keeper.


The original nip would have gone to whoever is named on the V5C . You have got yours now so not really relevant but you haven't mentioned who would have been contacted before yourself.
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Pensioner
post Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 10:14
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 11:02) *
QUOTE (Pensioner @ Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 09:21) *
It is Headed "FINAL REQUEST FOR INFORMATION" There is no mention of reminder or of any

To clarify, I am not the registered keeper.


The original nip would have gone to whoever is named on the V5C . You have got yours now so not really relevant but you haven't mentioned who would have been contacted before yourself.


Ahh,

Leasing Company (RK)

Company (Employer)

Driver Employee (Me)

This post has been edited by Pensioner: Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 10:16
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NewJudge
post Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 12:42
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If, as you believe, this was not a reminder and you have the full 28 days to respond (add two days to the date of the notice for service and then 28 days) how long after the original offence will this be? The police have six months from the date of the speeding offence to begin court proceedings and they cannot do so (or at least cannot expect to succeed with a speeding prosecution) unless and until they have evidence of who was driving. The only way this can usually be obtained is by you telling them. If your 28 days takes you beyond the six month limit you can respond naming yourself as driver (ensuring your reply is delivered after the six month cut off) but cannot be prosecuted for the offence. I suspect this is not the case (if so it would be unusual but not unheard of). It might help clarify your situation if you could provide that info.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 12:44
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Pensioner
post Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 18:28
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 13:42) *
If, as you believe, this was not a reminder and you have the full 28 days to respond (add two days to the date of the notice for service and then 28 days) how long after the original offence will this be? The police have six months from the date of the speeding offence to begin court proceedings and they cannot do so (or at least cannot expect to succeed with a speeding prosecution) unless and until they have evidence of who was driving. The only way this can usually be obtained is by you telling them. If your 28 days takes you beyond the six month limit you can respond naming yourself as driver (ensuring your reply is delivered after the six month cut off) but cannot be prosecuted for the offence. I suspect this is not the case (if so it would be unusual but not unheard of). It might help clarify your situation if you could provide that info.


The full 28 days of the notice falls fourteen days inside the six month window inside the six month window.

Can I expect a Fixed Penalty? Already been mentioned that I will not be offered an Educational Course.
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Jlc
post Sat, 22 Jul 2017 - 18:46
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If they issue a FP which goes past the 6 months then you're home dry. But they often realise and go straight to 'summons'.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Pensioner
post Thu, 10 Aug 2017 - 19:40
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Notice sent back two weeks ago (28 days will be in two days). Upgraded their prepaid envelope to signed for. Less chance of them disputing if it gets lost.

Now 14 days since it was posted and still showing in our fantastic postal system, but not as delivered. Hopefully Royal Mail will determine my fate. I have proof of posting by Signed For Service which I assume is deemed as served even though it may not have been received.

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The Rookie
post Thu, 10 Aug 2017 - 21:41
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Signed for was a waste of time (and money) as it will often not get signed for at a bulk handling centre such as this. You'll just have to wait and see.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Pensioner
post Thu, 10 Aug 2017 - 21:55
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Is it not the case that sending signed for helps secure the withdrawing of any Failure to Furnish Summons if they don't receive or lose it.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 10 Aug 2017 - 23:28
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No, in fact arguably the opposite, if you know, or have reason to suspect it hasn't been received then the onus is on you to correct that by sending another responce.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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ford poplar
post Fri, 11 Aug 2017 - 00:44
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You should have use their prepaid envelope, upgraded to First Class post if nec. and obtained free Cert of Posting from counter staff.
Unless you can hand-deliver requisite form to Auth. today (Fri), expect to receive a FTF Charge quite soon.
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Pensioner
post Fri, 11 Aug 2017 - 08:53
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QUOTE (ford poplar @ Fri, 11 Aug 2017 - 01:44) *
You should have use their prepaid envelope, upgraded to First Class post if nec. and obtained free Cert of Posting from counter staff.
Unless you can hand-deliver requisite form to Auth. today (Fri), expect to receive a FTF Charge quite soon.


I did use their reply paid envelope and upgraded to signed for delivery. Royal Mail Tracking shows that the item was received at the Post Office and is still progressing through the postal system.

Only two possible outcomes:

1. Lost in Post

2. Delivered and not signed for.
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peterguk
post Fri, 11 Aug 2017 - 09:30
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QUOTE (Pensioner @ Fri, 11 Aug 2017 - 09:53) *
2. Delivered and not signed for.


Most likely, which is why it's no better than Proof of Posting.


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panther12
post Fri, 11 Aug 2017 - 18:06
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If you want to chase up a signed for item with RM I think you have to wait at least 15 days if sent 1st class. I never use it only free POD as it's sent with the normal mail anyway. For anything critically important or of value that needs to get there guaranteed with proof of received I'd use special del.
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Pensioner
post Fri, 8 Sep 2017 - 18:21
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Does anyone know if Greater Manchester use the Single Justice Process or the old Lay Information and Summons?

Still waiting to hear from a NIP that was returned nearly a month ago.
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southpaw82
post Fri, 8 Sep 2017 - 18:44
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QUOTE (Pensioner @ Fri, 8 Sep 2017 - 19:21) *
Does anyone know if Greater Manchester use the Single Justice Process or the old Lay Information and Summons?

Still waiting to hear from a NIP that was returned nearly a month ago.

The police no longer have a power to lay an information, so must use a written charge along with a requisition or single justice notice.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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