PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

[NIP Wizard] 101 on M4- likely disqualification?
grother1
post Sun, 14 May 2017 - 16:53
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 15
Joined: 13 May 2017
Member No.: 91,958



NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - May 2017
Date of the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 7 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M4, J20-19 EASTBOUND, S GLOS, uk
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Travelling to visit a friend in Bath, noticed flash from overhead bridge. Realised travelling too fast, received NIP a week later. A bit surprised to find doing 101 but no excuse

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sun, 14 May 2017 16:42:03 +0000

Hi, in relation to the NIP I received I was doing 101 on the M4. Licence only held for 2 1/2 years. I am 19 years of age with an otherwise clean licence. Any ideas whether this could be 6 points or disqualification. No real mitigation. 9:30 at night on quiet road.


Also gutted that it was 101. Appears I may have fallen into a different sentenceing guideline if it was 99 or 100. Not sure if a solicitor is worth the extra cost if there is nothing to mitigate. Or is it worth trying to argue that margin of error could allow the lower sentencing guideline?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
3 Pages V   1 2 3 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Sun, 14 May 2017 - 16:53
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
The Rookie
post Sun, 14 May 2017 - 17:07
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 40,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



The days of a sure fire disqualification for over 100mph have long passed, while a disqualification will certainly be considered it is odds on (unless you try hard otherwise) that 6 points and a fairly hefty fine awaits.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
notmeatloaf
post Sun, 14 May 2017 - 17:08
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,552
Joined: 4 Mar 2017
Member No.: 90,659



Was the limit 70mph?

Historically we have increasingly seen people just over a ton being given six points rather than a ban, which would seem to be supported by the new sentencing guidelines which state 101mph and above is six points OR a 7-56 day ban. Probably a 28 day ban tops if they do ban you.

You will likely be asked to attend court anyway as they will be considering banning you and can try and lead the court the way you want, e.g. "I understand you will be considering giving me a number of penalty points for the offence and they will act as a constant reminder to control my speed in the years ahead".

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Sun, 14 May 2017 - 17:10
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Sun, 14 May 2017 - 17:37
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,461
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



There's no 'margin of error'. The recorded speed is what is used unless you could actually show it was wrong.

Most systems list an accuracy of +/-1mph which could equally be argued you were doing 102.

The penalty escalates quickly - 95 would have been a 3 points £100 fixed penalty. It's not worth speeding on most motorways or major roads.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
grother1
post Sun, 14 May 2017 - 18:05
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 15
Joined: 13 May 2017
Member No.: 91,958



QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sun, 14 May 2017 - 18:08) *
Was the limit 70mph?

Historically we have increasingly seen people just over a ton being given six points rather than a ban, which would seem to be supported by the new sentencing guidelines which state 101mph and above is six points OR a 7-56 day ban. Probably a 28 day ban tops if they do ban you.

You will likely be asked to attend court anyway as they will be considering banning you and can try and lead the court the way you want, e.g. "I understand you will be considering giving me a number of penalty points for the offence and they will act as a constant reminder to control my speed in the years ahead".


Thank you. Yes the limit was 70. Do you know if I can write a letter to the court or do I have to give my pleas verbally. If I get a ban I think I will have to cancel my insurance for that month or two and lose my now claims which at my age will be another big financial penalty. I initially thought a short ban would be OK but I am realy hoping for the 6 points
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Sun, 14 May 2017 - 18:14
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,461
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



It is likely they will use the Single Justice Procedure which will mean you can submit a guilty plea by post. Only if they want to consider a ban will they adjourn to a normal court hearing and you will have to attend (or send legal rep).

Most insurance will consider endorsements (incl. bans) at the time of renewal. But it could be financially painful indeed - i don't see the need to compromise any no claims.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Sun, 14 May 2017 - 18:15


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Logician
post Sun, 14 May 2017 - 20:11
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,639
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



As you have held a licence for only 2 1/2 years, if you get 6 points your licence will be revoked and you will have to take your test again (both parts). Bizarrely if you are disqualified you will keep your licence.


--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Sun, 14 May 2017 - 20:20
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,461
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



Sure of that?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
andy_foster
post Sun, 14 May 2017 - 20:20
Post #9


Member
Group Icon

Group: Life Member
Posts: 20,400
Joined: 9 Sep 2004
From: Reading
Member No.: 1,624



If he had held a full licence for more than 2 years on the date of offence, it will not be revoked.

edit: The probationary period is 2 years from first becoming a qualified driver. The points that are taken into consideration are within 3 years - same as for totting. Presumably that is the reason for the brain fart?

This post has been edited by andy_foster: Sun, 14 May 2017 - 20:21


--------------------
Andy

If you're going to try to contradict me, please at least try to get your facts straight.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
notmeatloaf
post Sun, 14 May 2017 - 20:34
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,552
Joined: 4 Mar 2017
Member No.: 90,659



QUOTE (grother1 @ Sun, 14 May 2017 - 19:05) *
Thank you. Yes the limit was 70. Do you know if I can write a letter to the court or do I have to give my pleas verbally. If I get a ban I think I will have to cancel my insurance for that month or two and lose my now claims which at my age will be another big financial penalty. I initially thought a short ban would be OK but I am realy hoping for the 6 points

As has been said your first bite at the cherry is via the SJP, basically a court in an office somewhere. It's a bit too early into the new sentencing guidelines to know if they will transfer it to a local court anticipating a ban. It used to be odds on, now perhaps not.

With your insurance if it is only a month it may not be worth suspending it as there is normally a hefty admin fee involved. Certainly it shouldn't affect your no claims bonus as you aren't making a claim. It will go up because of the six points or ban, you can get an indication by doing a dummy quote on a comparison website with *similar* details to your own. Check your T&Cs to find out if you need to break the good news to them now or at renewal.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Logician
post Sun, 14 May 2017 - 21:21
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,639
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sun, 14 May 2017 - 21:20) *
If he had held a full licence for more than 2 years on the date of offence, it will not be revoked. edit: The probationary period is 2 years from first becoming a qualified driver. The points that are taken into consideration are within 3 years - same as for totting. Presumably that is the reason for the brain fart?


Whoops! That's what comes of posting while watching television and playing with the cat, a major brain fart.



--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
grother1
post Mon, 15 May 2017 - 01:00
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 15
Joined: 13 May 2017
Member No.: 91,958



QUOTE (Jlc @ Sun, 14 May 2017 - 19:14) *
- i don't see the need to compromise any no claims.


I understood that I canot have car insurance if I do not have a driving licence, which, if I am disqualified for a month or more I will not have a valid licence. I thought I would therefore have to cancel my insurance and the break would have a huge impact on my potential to have my first year no claims bonus in November. At my age and experience a years no claims can make many hundreds of pounds difference.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Mon, 15 May 2017 - 02:07
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 40,198
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



You can still insure the car even if you are disqualified, you still have a licence, just are disqualified from driving.

To clarify one point, it's time from when you passed your first test to offence date that matters, if that is less than 2 years then 6 points would see your licence revoked.



--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
grother1
post Mon, 15 May 2017 - 08:06
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 15
Joined: 13 May 2017
Member No.: 91,958



I think I should be OK re revocation. I passed my test in November 2014. The offence was May 2017.

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 15 May 2017 - 03:07) *
You can still insure the car even if you are disqualified, you still have a licence, just are disqualified from driving.

OK, Hope that is the case. A friend had told me that a disqualified driver cannot be insured to drive and i would need to ensure there is no break in my insurance to get my no claims in November 17
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
peterguk
post Mon, 15 May 2017 - 08:11
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,238
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



QUOTE (grother1 @ Mon, 15 May 2017 - 09:06) *
A friend had told me ... i would need to ensure there is no break in my insurance to get my no claims in November 17


And what does your insurance co. say?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Mon, 15 May 2017 - 09:07
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,461
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



I'd be surprised if the conditions of insurance covered a short ban - but as noted worth checking/asking. As long as you don't drive during any ban then there should not be any issues.

Obviously, renewal is a different issue.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Logician
post Mon, 15 May 2017 - 10:29
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,639
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



Your insurance policy continues but you would not be able to drive, however anyone else covered under the policy could drive and the car would still be insured against fire and theft, which you would want.


--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
notmeatloaf
post Mon, 15 May 2017 - 12:03
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,552
Joined: 4 Mar 2017
Member No.: 90,659



Plus even if you cancel your insurance most (all?) insurers will accept a NCB as long as there is less than a two year gap between policies - although you would lose your partial year.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Mon, 15 May 2017 - 20:07
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6,294
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (Jlc @ Sun, 14 May 2017 - 19:14) *
It is likely they will use the Single Justice Procedure which will mean you can submit a guilty plea by post. Only if they want to consider a ban will they adjourn to a normal court hearing and you will have to attend (or send legal rep).

Most insurance will consider endorsements (incl. bans) at the time of renewal. But it could be financially painful indeed - i don't see the need to compromise any no claims.


Well it's not strictly necessary to use the SJP to allow a guilty plea by post


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
grother1
post Tue, 16 May 2017 - 10:21
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 15
Joined: 13 May 2017
Member No.: 91,958



QUOTE (Jlc @ Sun, 14 May 2017 - 19:14) *
It is likely they will use the Single Justice Procedure which will mean you can submit a guilty plea by post. Only if they want to consider a ban will they adjourn to a normal court hearing and you will have to attend (or send legal rep).

Thank you...out of interest, could the Single Justice Procedure consider and make the decision that there will be no ban and write back to tell me there will be 6 points and fine or MUST this go to the full court?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

3 Pages V   1 2 3 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 14th December 2018 - 06:41
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.