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Was I in breach of the parking rules?
HenryHippo
post Fri, 17 Mar 2017 - 10:23
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Hi Everyone,

Dec 2016 the driver opted to park in the road outside a chargeable car park (no double yellows or anything).

There was a sign saying anyone who parks on the verge will be fined. There was plenty of space in the road, so the driver parked in the road.

Only for the owner to get a ticket through the post from District Enforcement (A PCN)

The owner ignored them for a while and now got the threatening "Notice of impending court action" by recorded delivery

Does the owner and driver have a leg to stand on if this goes to court? The driver maintains that they are parked in the road and not on the (grass) verge







EDIT: In January the owner sent them an email explaining that the driver was parked on the layby not the verge, with pictures supporting this. The owner got the below letter from them on 10th Feb



This post has been edited by HenryHippo: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 - 14:05
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post Fri, 17 Mar 2017 - 10:23
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Eljayjay
post Tue, 24 Oct 2017 - 21:42
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You have had over 300 replies on this and your other thread,

I'm out.
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HenryHippo
post Fri, 3 Nov 2017 - 12:33
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14 days exactly till the hearing and I have not had anything arrive in the post from the other party

Shall I call the court today, inform of this and request a strike out/ any evidence that they attempt to present on the day is invalid?

This post has been edited by HenryHippo: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 - 12:57
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 3 Nov 2017 - 13:31
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DIsregard, not strike out
Yes, call the court. See if they have the bundle served on them. State you have no bundle yourself.
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HenryHippo
post Fri, 3 Nov 2017 - 15:05
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Fri, 3 Nov 2017 - 14:31) *
DIsregard, not strike out
Yes, call the court. See if they have the bundle served on them. State you have no bundle yourself.


Called up 3pm today. The court had not received the bundle either.

Court staff advised me that the judge can use his discretion on the day and allow them to present evidence not submitted, but that this is rare.

Court have received my documents I sent last week

Final caveat is that the other side do have until 4 pm today to send the documents.
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ostell
post Fri, 3 Nov 2017 - 16:16
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If it doesn't arrive by, say, 12 days before, then write to the court stating the fact and complain that it makes it difficult for you, a litigant in person, to properly research matters if it arrives later. Request that the court disregard if it arrives laterr than ordered.

Your letter will get into the judge's bundle and it makes him aware before the case.

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HenryHippo
post Fri, 3 Nov 2017 - 17:00
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QUOTE (ostell @ Fri, 3 Nov 2017 - 17:16) *
If it doesn't arrive by, say, 12 days before, then write to the court stating the fact and complain that it makes it difficult for you, a litigant in person, to properly research matters if it arrives later. Request that the court disregard if it arrives laterr than ordered.

Your letter will get into the judge's bundle and it makes him aware before the case.



With the aim of making the judge more likely to not use his discretion. Thanks
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SchoolRunMum
post Sat, 4 Nov 2017 - 21:13
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I really like this one!

Don't forget your own counter-claim.

If the ball is dropped by DE and they discontinue or the court moves to strike their case out, then you merely pay £25 for your counter-claim alone to be heard. Got to be worth the punt for twenty-five smackers, bearing in mind this land and the evidence you've filed.
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nosferatu1001
post Sun, 5 Nov 2017 - 12:52
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You need to watch out - if they discontinue YOU have to pay 5e hearing fee, but the court might not tell you this explicitly.
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HenryHippo
post Mon, 6 Nov 2017 - 16:50
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Sun, 5 Nov 2017 - 13:52) *
You need to watch out - if they discontinue YOU have to pay 5e hearing fee, but the court might not tell you this explicitly.



If they fail to turn up on the day would that count as discontinued?

How much is a hearing fee?


Will check my post tonight and assuming I received nothing I will write an email to the court. Or better an actual letter?
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 6 Nov 2017 - 17:36
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No, of course not. Thats a no show - worse for them. Discontinue means theyve formally told the court they dont want the hearing to go ahead. To not show up means they didnt resepect the court enough to even send a simple letter in.

£25 from memory.

An email is fine, back it up with a letter. Email is faster, for a start
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HenryHippo
post Mon, 6 Nov 2017 - 20:33
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 6 Nov 2017 - 18:36) *
No, of course not. Thats a no show - worse for them. Discontinue means theyve formally told the court they dont want the hearing to go ahead. To not show up means they didnt resepect the court enough to even send a simple letter in.

£25 from memory.

An email is fine, back it up with a letter. Email is faster, for a start


Have emailed the court. They responded on the same email address to me last week, so confident it will arrive.

Few questions about the day:

1) The hearing will take place in the Judge's office. Just the Judge, DE and myself present?

2) Do I need to bring proof of postage for the witness statement, just in case DE try and claim I never served them copies?

3) Do I need to be articulate and argue all my points? Or will the judge simply read my documents in silence and ask me questions when need be?

4) Will the judge have read the notes before the hearing?

5) Will DE be cross examining me and vice versa?

6) Can I appeal the decision if it doesn't go in my favour?

And any other tips are welcome. Thanks
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SchoolRunMum
post Mon, 6 Nov 2017 - 21:38
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QUOTE (HenryHippo @ Mon, 6 Nov 2017 - 17:50) *
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Sun, 5 Nov 2017 - 13:52) *
You need to watch out - if they discontinue YOU have to pay 5e hearing fee, but the court might not tell you this explicitly.


How much is a hearing fee?



I already told you this in my post above, the fact you'd need to pay it, to have your claim heard (if they discontinue theirs) and how much.
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HenryHippo
post Mon, 6 Nov 2017 - 22:00
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Mon, 6 Nov 2017 - 22:38) *
QUOTE (HenryHippo @ Mon, 6 Nov 2017 - 17:50) *
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Sun, 5 Nov 2017 - 13:52) *
You need to watch out - if they discontinue YOU have to pay 5e hearing fee, but the court might not tell you this explicitly.


How much is a hearing fee?



I already told you this in my post above, the fact you'd need to pay it, to have your claim heard (if they discontinue theirs) and how much.


I know, but I was confused by the "5e" as it looked like a typo for "£5" which would have contradicted your statement
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 7 Nov 2017 - 08:59
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Have tyou complained about the lack of WS now? I hope so - you shoudl also cll and see if thecCOURT has a copy of the claimants bundle

1) Likely just that
2) I would bring along everything and anything that might help you. You dont want to miss it on the day!
3) Potentially. Read completed cases section!
4) Probably. Read completed cases section!
5) Witnesses can be cross exmained, I imagine they will NOT bring along anyone who is an actual witness. THis means that whoever wrote their WS - assuming they bother to file one - will NOT be someone who turns up, and likely they will talk about items they do NOT know about in that witness statement. You of course a) shouldnt have the bundle included at all - its late, however b) the court can decide to include it anyway so c) you complain that the witness is NOT present so cannot be challenged on any errors etc.
If you STILL do not have a bundle, and DE actually turn up on the day, DO NOT accept ANYTHING from them. NOTHING.
6) Yes, but only really on mistaken points f law, not findings of fact (i.e. if the judge decided the signs were clear, that is a finding of fact, not law) as I understand it.
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HenryHippo
post Wed, 8 Nov 2017 - 18:06
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 7 Nov 2017 - 09:59) *
Have tyou complained about the lack of WS now? I hope so - you shoudl also cll and see if thecCOURT has a copy of the claimants bundle

1) Likely just that
2) I would bring along everything and anything that might help you. You dont want to miss it on the day!
3) Potentially. Read completed cases section!
4) Probably. Read completed cases section!
5) Witnesses can be cross exmained, I imagine they will NOT bring along anyone who is an actual witness. THis means that whoever wrote their WS - assuming they bother to file one - will NOT be someone who turns up, and likely they will talk about items they do NOT know about in that witness statement. You of course a) shouldnt have the bundle included at all - its late, however b) the court can decide to include it anyway so c) you complain that the witness is NOT present so cannot be challenged on any errors etc.
If you STILL do not have a bundle, and DE actually turn up on the day, DO NOT accept ANYTHING from them. NOTHING.
6) Yes, but only really on mistaken points f law, not findings of fact (i.e. if the judge decided the signs were clear, that is a finding of fact, not law) as I understand it.


Thanks. The completed cases section was a good read. A recent Gladstones loss on there too

For sure I will not accept anything from them, their bundle is too late.

I have complained via email and letter about the lack of WS. I called the court a few times today but did not get through

Given that 1 hour before the deadline it hadn't arrived with the court and that I haven't had anything in my own letter box as of last night, I am 99% satisfied that they have failed to file a bundle

I will keep calling the court though, just on that 1% chance

This post has been edited by HenryHippo: Wed, 8 Nov 2017 - 18:07
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SchoolRunMum
post Wed, 8 Nov 2017 - 18:09
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QUOTE (HenryHippo @ Mon, 6 Nov 2017 - 23:00) *
QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Mon, 6 Nov 2017 - 22:38) *
QUOTE (HenryHippo @ Mon, 6 Nov 2017 - 17:50) *
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Sun, 5 Nov 2017 - 13:52) *
You need to watch out - if they discontinue YOU have to pay 5e hearing fee, but the court might not tell you this explicitly.


How much is a hearing fee?



I already told you this in my post above, the fact you'd need to pay it, to have your claim heard (if they discontinue theirs) and how much.


I know, but I was confused by the "5e" as it looked like a typo for "£5" which would have contradicted your statement


I didn't write 5e.

I wrote £25 and then wrote it out in words as well.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 9 Nov 2017 - 08:48
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Keep calling. The court is useless (lack of funding) - morning is best.
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HenryHippo
post Sun, 12 Nov 2017 - 19:16
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 9 Nov 2017 - 09:48) *
Keep calling. The court is useless (lack of funding) - morning is best.


I never did get through again

Update

Gladstones WS arrived. Letter itself is dated 7th Nov and has a 9th Nov post mark on it.

Court date is 17th Nov. The 14 day rule takes us back to 3rd Nov deadline

I sent both an email and letter to the court last week asking for anything they did send to be disregarded

So does that mean that the Judge will be forced/ be high likely to disregard the WS from Gladstones?
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ostell
post Sun, 12 Nov 2017 - 20:11
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It's up to the judge
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HenryHippo
post Sun, 12 Nov 2017 - 20:39
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QUOTE (ostell @ Sun, 12 Nov 2017 - 21:11) *
It's up to the judge


Hopefully I have done enough by sending a letter explaining that their lateness inconveniences me for the Judge to dismiss their WS. Seems like the large company are bullying me by sending theirs in late. Additionally they have addressed a lot of my WS points in their WS, which they would not have been able to if they submitted on time.

Here is the link to their WS. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ss5abepomfegssn/i...etopdf.pdf?dl=0

Points I noticed:

- DE contend that the highways ends at the end of the tarmac and therefore that the verge starts where the tarmac ends. They reject my notion of the verge being marked by the posts. Naturally I contend the land is: tarmaced road, layby, verge

- The land falls under relevant land as it is owned by a charity. I'm not confident about this, City of London is owned by the council therefore it isn't private land

- inferences towards myself being the driver

- Apparently I didn't pay the CounterClaim fee. This is bizzare as I called the court, supplied my card details. I will call ASAP in the morning to rectify this if need be

- They have responded to Halliday V Hall and Vidal V Google, which they only could have be waiting for my WS

- The DE contract. I can't work out what this is trying to prove exactly. Maybe just that they have the right to operate there?

- Pictures of the car, the last of which is the same angle I used. Second picture is rather cunningly edited (you can tell that the height: width ratio is off), with the grass verge cut out the shot

- Finally the last page they didn't sign the document, so it's not valid as well as late?

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