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Loading outside my house PCN PARKING TICKET
snowboarder
post Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 12:03
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Hi all i was loading outside my house, the car was not open or anything and the door was closed but i was packing boxes and moving a fridge from the back to the house come outside and find a parking ticket on my car.

he observed it for only 6 minutes. !

this is what i found on the net.

The observation period was only 6 minutes which is under the Operational period stated in the Guidance to Local Authorities: Parking Policy and Enforcement November 2010, the Department for Transport states in section 8.51 The recommended casual observation should be at least 20 minutes long and will not require the enforcing officer to remain in the area for the duration.

worth a try?? I mean what a *****.

any advice.

i know i can load on double yellow. just they ask to upload photo evidence as well i think
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post Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 12:03
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stamfordman
post Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 12:13
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20 mins is time for commercial loading that is observed.

A double yellow needs no observation time for private cars where no exempt activity is seen. Six mins is a long time - which may be hopeful as perhaps some loading was seen.

To challenge you'll need to provide details of why the car was unattended for so long, and proof if you can.

post the PCN. That it was outside your house is also a factor.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 12:14
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snowboarder
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 19:33
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Thu, 14 Jun 2018 - 13:13) *
20 mins is time for commercial loading that is observed.

A double yellow needs no observation time for private cars where no exempt activity is seen. Six mins is a long time - which may be hopeful as perhaps some loading was seen.

To challenge you'll need to provide details of why the car was unattended for so long, and proof if you can.

post the PCN. That it was outside your house is also a factor.





"post the PCN. That it was outside your house is also a factor" ? what do you mean do you want the PCN number?


I can get proof.? as in photos of the fridge in my car, the doctors letter stating my wife has a spinal injury and cant lift heavy things so i had to do it myself. but also i am a registered business and my home address is my business address
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cp8759
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 19:56
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Did you take photos of the fridge in the car at the time? You can't take photos now and say they were taken then. But you could take a photo of the fridge. Was it new? If so, do you have a received to show you bought it on that day?

This post has been edited by cp8759: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 19:57


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stamfordman
post Fri, 15 Jun 2018 - 20:30
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We like to check the PCN - take a pic of it and post it on Imgur or Flickr or another pic site.

The more proof you can provide the better in a challenge. Your case is similar to another today - see:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=120962

Funnily, tomorrow I'll be moving a dishwasher out to our car in front of the house and a refurb one back later with the car on double yellows, but as Saturday is not controlled in our street I don't expect trouble...

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snowboarder
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 11:05
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Sorry for late reply but here is the details.

note that the pcn ticket had ran out of ink hence the missing bits note the scanner.






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DancingDad
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 11:30
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QUOTE (snowboarder @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 12:05) *
Sorry for late reply but here is the details.

note that the pcn ticket had ran out of ink hence the missing bits note the scanner.


Missing bits ?
Now we really want to see the PCN.
Post the pics of it on a freeby picture hosting site and link back here.
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snowboarder
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 11:37
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trying to send the photos i uploaded to my facebook then shared the link but its not working



here we go

https://ibb.co/cvB46y




and the NtO



https://ibb.co/eQZDzJ

This post has been edited by snowboarder: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 11:38
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DancingDad
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 11:54
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You may want to take them down again and obscure your personal details..name address reg and PCN number.
And lets see the back of the PCN please, while there are bits missing on front, not quite enough IMO to damn it.

Loading
As NTO is here and discount gone, may as well plan on going all the way with this, nothing to lose, everyting to gain.
It is an exemption but must be continuous, only as long as needed and onus is on you to prove.
Time needed, in strictest of senses, Fridge should have been ready by front door before bringing the car up.
However time to carry from kitchen would normally be allowed but not time to remove food etc or dismantle normally.
Photos help, if taken at the time, receipt for new fridge (I assume you were replacing) can substantiate story of scrapping old one, whatever you can supply.
Likely to come down to independent adjudicator via a phone hearing. If they believe you will win, if not or if they suspect wasted time (having a cuppa before loading for instance) you will lose.
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snowboarder
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 12:01
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 12:54) *
You may want to take them down again and obscure your personal details..name address reg and PCN number.
And lets see the back of the PCN please, while there are bits missing on front, not quite enough IMO to damn it.

Loading
As NTO is here and discount gone, may as well plan on going all the way with this, nothing to lose, everyting to gain.
It is an exemption but must be continuous, only as long as needed and onus is on you to prove.
Time needed, in strictest of senses, Fridge should have been ready by front door before bringing the car up.
However time to carry from kitchen would normally be allowed but not time to remove food etc or dismantle normally.
Photos help, if taken at the time, receipt for new fridge (I assume you were replacing) can substantiate story of scrapping old one, whatever you can supply.
Likely to come down to independent adjudicator via a phone hearing. If they believe you will win, if not or if they suspect wasted time (having a cuppa before loading for instance) you will lose.




Hmmm right also my business is registered at this address as well, and you are allowed to load on a double yellow.

To all the weirdos who look at my address i really dont care lol cup of tea? laugh.gif
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snowboarder
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 12:15
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 12:54) *
You may want to take them down again and obscure your personal details..name address reg and PCN number.
And lets see the back of the PCN please, while there are bits missing on front, not quite enough IMO to damn it.

Loading
As NTO is here and discount gone, may as well plan on going all the way with this, nothing to lose, everyting to gain.
It is an exemption but must be continuous, only as long as needed and onus is on you to prove.
Time needed, in strictest of senses, Fridge should have been ready by front door before bringing the car up.
However time to carry from kitchen would normally be allowed but not time to remove food etc or dismantle normally.
Photos help, if taken at the time, receipt for new fridge (I assume you were replacing) can substantiate story of scrapping old one, whatever you can supply.
Likely to come down to independent adjudicator via a phone hearing. If they believe you will win, if not or if they suspect wasted time (having a cuppa before loading for instance) you will lose.



seems more hassle thats its worth. im still a student so they can have 5 pounds a month.

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 12:54) *
You may want to take them down again and obscure your personal details..name address reg and PCN number.
And lets see the back of the PCN please, while there are bits missing on front, not quite enough IMO to damn it.

Loading
As NTO is here and discount gone, may as well plan on going all the way with this, nothing to lose, everyting to gain.
It is an exemption but must be continuous, only as long as needed and onus is on you to prove.
Time needed, in strictest of senses, Fridge should have been ready by front door before bringing the car up.
However time to carry from kitchen would normally be allowed but not time to remove food etc or dismantle normally.
Photos help, if taken at the time, receipt for new fridge (I assume you were replacing) can substantiate story of scrapping old one, whatever you can supply.
Likely to come down to independent adjudicator via a phone hearing. If they believe you will win, if not or if they suspect wasted time (having a cuppa before loading for instance) you will lose.




Representation Reason
A - The alleged Contravention did not occur
B I was not the owner of the vehicle at the time of contravention
- I had sold the vehicle before that date
- I had bought the vehicle after that date
- I have never owned that vehicle
C - The vehicle was taken without my consent
D - We are a hire firm and have supplied details
E - The Penalty Charge exceeds the relevant amount
F - There has been a procedural impropriety by the Enforcement Authority
G - The traffic order contravened is invalid
H - The Notice should not have been served because the Penalty Charge had already been paid
I - Other
Additional Information

which one ?
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 12:22
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QUOTE
seems more hassle thats its worth. im still a student so they can have 5 pounds a month


They dont take £5 a month, they send the bailiffs to take your property. Hassle, you ain't seen nothing yet.

I still have seen no documents but if you claim the loading exemption it is for you to prove it applies. On the balance of probability, so whatever evidence you can submit


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DancingDad
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 12:23
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Contravention did not occur

70 quid paid within the 28 day deadline, no easy payment schemes, sorry.
Except if you start saving £5 a week you should have the wherewithal to settle should you lose.

Hassle?
At the moment it is make a challenge, we will help with that once we have information sorted.
Wait for a reply.
If that is a Notice of Rejection, appeal to adjudicators, again we will help
Spare an hour for a phone hearing.
Explain your case (loading) to an adjudicator and answer any questions.
Say thanks for cancelling or get another 28 days to pay up.
Odds in your favour given what you have said but no guarantees.

This post has been edited by DancingDad: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 12:26
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snowboarder
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 12:41
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 13:22) *
QUOTE
seems more hassle thats its worth. im still a student so they can have 5 pounds a month


They dont take £5 a month, they send the bailiffs to take your property. Hassle, you ain't seen nothing yet.

I still have seen no documents but if you claim the loading exemption it is for you to prove it applies. On the balance of probability, so whatever evidence you can submit



sorry i removed it as my address was on it i'll re upload it now
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snowboarder
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 12:59
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 13:22) *
QUOTE
seems more hassle thats its worth. im still a student so they can have 5 pounds a month


They dont take £5 a month, they send the bailiffs to take your property. Hassle, you ain't seen nothing yet.

I still have seen no documents but if you claim the loading exemption it is for you to prove it applies. On the balance of probability, so whatever evidence you can submit




https://ibb.co/eMjr3d
https://ibb.co/jw70wy

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 13:23) *
Contravention did not occur

70 quid paid within the 28 day deadline, no easy payment schemes, sorry.
Except if you start saving £5 a week you should have the wherewithal to settle should you lose.

Hassle?
At the moment it is make a challenge, we will help with that once we have information sorted.
Wait for a reply.
If that is a Notice of Rejection, appeal to adjudicators, again we will help
Spare an hour for a phone hearing.
Explain your case (loading) to an adjudicator and answer any questions.
Say thanks for cancelling or get another 28 days to pay up.
Odds in your favour given what you have said but no guarantees.



a phone hearing Jesus its a a parking fine lol

i will be sure to submit a claim for the damage to my car from all the pot holes around here.
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 13:03
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I would like to see,

Any informal challenge and the response.

The back of both the PCN and all other pages of the NTO and the council photos.

I would certainly go with a point that statutory information is missing. not that i think it would win on its own but the council are likely to mess up, if not in their response but in not sending an exact copy to tribunal. both strings to your bow

proving loading is still the objective


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snowboarder
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 16:07
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 14:03) *
I would like to see,

Any informal challenge and the response.

The back of both the PCN and all other pages of the NTO and the council photos.

I would certainly go with a point that statutory information is missing. not that i think it would win on its own but the council are likely to mess up, if not in their response but in not sending an exact copy to tribunal. both strings to your bow

proving loading is still the objective



they didnt send me the photos from the warden who issued the pcn ? i'll upload the other documents
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cp8759
post Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 17:55
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You can normally get the CEO's photos from the Council website. Failing that, ask the council to email them to you.

A phone hearing isn't the only option, you can ask the the tribunal to decide the case on the papers, equally you can ask for a personal hearing where you attend the tribunal in person. Should it get to the tribunal stage, I would go for a hearing (telephone or personal) as this case depends to a large extent on your credibility as a witness.

As for pothole damage, I honestly wouldn't bother unless you have previously asked them to fix a pothole and they've failed to do so.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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