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PCN received - course of action...
nxh66
post Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 19:39
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Hello Folks,

To my surprise today a PCN was received from one of the well known culprits.

It is a demand for £56 if paid within 14 days or £100 within 28 days.

It shows the driver driving "into" the car park at 11:44:19.

Once parked the driver purchased a ticket marked 11:47, it doesn't show seconds so could be as late as 11:47:59 meaning it took up to 3 minutes 40 secs ish to park.

As far as I can see the driver had paid for parking until up to 12:47:59....so if it took them the same 3 minutes 40 seconds to leave the car park it took to get in this takes them up to about 12:51:39.....the driver was photographed "leaving" the car park at 12:52:34 so were potentially given the PCN for overstaying for less than a minute!!

I can't see how the ANPR photos have a bearing to how long the driver was actually parked, they just show entering and leaving, not how long the car was parked in a space.

I also need to check the signs to see if it mentions the car park using ANPR at all. It was always just a pay & display in the past.

The culprits are members of the BPA....I thought they are supposed to operate a 10 minute grace period in line with councils etc?

Also on the basis of the charges not being a genuine pre-estimate of loss. A minute of parking costs 2 pence, not £100.

I'm thinking of using the Private parking Appeals folks as I really dont have a huge amount of time to dedicate to this but would welcome any thoughts from you all.

Mark.

This post has been edited by nxh66: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 22:00
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post Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 19:39
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freddy1
post Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 20:02
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check the VRN on the ticket matches your car


read http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=113195

This post has been edited by freddy1: Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 20:04
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Dave65
post Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 20:16
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Edit your post and read it so you only refer to "the driver" did this or that.
Your timings are reasonable and your understanding of this is correct,
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s360
post Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 20:22
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Don't bother with parking appeals.
Read POFA HERE. Para 9 is for ANPR. check that the notice meets ALL the criteria.
You're right that ANPR can never give the time of parking, only entry and exit and as such will be one of the failings in regard to POFA. also check to see if they claim keeper liability. pay specific attention to the wording regarding the 28 days.
A mandatory 10 minute grace period on entering and a 'reasonable' time in which to leave, often taking as also being 10 minutes.
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Macapaca
post Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 20:40
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It is worth starting with the stats on parking company's appetite and success/failure of taking PCN's to court. You can find the stats for your PPC on the BMPA website. It makes fascinating reading and should give you the encouragement and motivation to fight back against these money grabbing crooks. The chance of being taken to court and losing is about <0.01%!

In your case you have a good chance of winning a POPLA appeal which will stop it dragging on. You need to start by appealing to the PPC but they will reject it as a matter of course.
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ostell
post Sat, 17 Feb 2018 - 21:21
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Edit the title of the thread, or ask a mod

Helps to post a redacted copy of the PCN for others to comment
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nxh66
post Sun, 18 Feb 2018 - 20:18
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Thanks for the comments Folks. I've edited the title and the 1st post.

I have also uploaded the PCN received:



I visited the car park today and the signage does appear to be in order. I'm penning a letter to these clowns now.

Any one have any comments on the PCN?

ANPR photos should be date and time stamped no? Not just a photo along with a time elsewhere on the PCN?

Is it worth mentioning anything more than the 10 minutes of grace upon entering into the carpark to allow reading of signage etc prior to buying
a ticket and the further 10 minutes allowed to exit the car park after the contract ends as outlined in the BPA AOS code of practice Jan 2018?


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Jlc
post Sun, 18 Feb 2018 - 20:37
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I don’t think grace is the 'issue' here. It's more likely they haven't matched your payment to the car.

This would either be some malfunction or the wrong vrm entered. (Is there any O's or Zero's in it?)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Macapaca
post Sun, 18 Feb 2018 - 21:34
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The PPC will argue that you knew the required time of departure and should have allowed time to exit within the paid time. I am not saying that is reasonable. I am just playing 'devil's advocate' and saying that is the position that the PPC will take. They will not offer any flexibility at all. Why should they? They want your money!

The BPA guidelines state a minimum of 10 minute grace period.

This post has been edited by Macapaca: Sun, 18 Feb 2018 - 23:46
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Jlc
post Sun, 18 Feb 2018 - 21:45
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There's a minimum of 10 minutes exit grace - the times above are within this even with the most pessimistic timing.

That's why I think something else is the reason behind it...

This post has been edited by Jlc: Sun, 18 Feb 2018 - 21:45


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ostell
post Sun, 18 Feb 2018 - 21:49
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The Code of Practise suggests that there should be a minimum of a 10 minutes grace period at the end of parking to allow the vehicle to leave. There should be no action taken within that period. You can reasonably be allowed time to read the signs at the beginning to decide whether to accept the contract offered. Acceptance is by payment.

Can't see the PCN hosted on Photobucket, there's been problems since they tried to raise more cash.

This post has been edited by ostell: Sun, 18 Feb 2018 - 21:50
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Redivi
post Sun, 18 Feb 2018 - 22:02
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I haven't been able to see Photobucket images for several days
Had wondered what the problem was
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ostell
post Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 08:29
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Sun, 18 Feb 2018 - 22:02) *
I haven't been able to see Photobucket images for several days
Had wondered what the problem was


It's ever since they tried to increase their income by a serious increase in advertising and charging if you want to use in hosting applications, as in this instance. Best not to use.
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