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Smart watch with call capability
Figaro
post Sat, 6 Oct 2018 - 23:39
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Evening all. What are anyone’s thoughts on the technical legality but also the policed reality of using a smart watch with voice call capability whilst driving.

For starters let’s assume it is voice activated dialling, on its own loudspeaker not Bluetooth to car and is worn on the drivers wrist. The driver may have to take his hand off the wheel and hold the watch a bit closer to his face to speak into it and also to hear it.

Feel free to comment about other aspects but I can see the use case above as being quite realistic.

Figaro
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post Sat, 6 Oct 2018 - 23:39
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The Rookie
post Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 07:30
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I’d say it’s illegal to letter of the law, it’s being ‘held’ in that it’s nit supported by the vehicle and a mounting, it’s being used for mobile communications and it’s not in an excempted category.

It does fall into a number of grey areas, it’s not being ‘clasped’ by a hand, and you could argue it’s communication (which is to the phone in your pocket) is excempted.

The issue is of course that apart from idiots actually driving while looking at their phone (texting, music control, playing Pokemon or reading the footy scores/Facebook/instagram/WhatsApp etc.) it’s the act of being focused on a phone call (to the detriment of focusing on driving) that creates the danger not whether you’re holding the phone, or have your watch to your face that is the main safety concern.


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nigelbb
post Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 08:13
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 08:30) *
I’d say it’s illegal to letter of the law, it’s being ‘held’ in that it’s nit supported by the vehicle and a mounting, it’s being used for mobile communications and it’s not in an excempted category.

On the contrary as regards the specific mobile phone legislation it's obviously legal as it is not a hand-held device any more than if it was in a pocket.


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The Rookie
post Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 09:11
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That depends on your interpretation of hand held, literal or supported manually, your argument suggest a phone pinned to the ear by your shoulder isn’t hand held, good luck getting an acquittal on that.


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nigelbb
post Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 11:31
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 10:11) *
That depends on your interpretation of hand held, literal or supported manually, your argument suggest a phone pinned to the ear by your shoulder isn’t hand held, good luck getting an acquittal on that.

The specific offence is to do with a hand-held device. The legislation must be interpreted as referring to devices that are literally held in the hand & not just capable of being held in the hand otherwise if the hand-held device was in a hands-free cradle it could still be illegal to use. Wedging a phone between ear & shoulder would not be illegal under the specific mobile phone legislation but would be covered by not being in proper control.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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DancingDad
post Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 11:33
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If it is acting like a Bluetooth and can be used while driving with hands on wheel, I would say legal.
If it has to be held to ear and thus restricting hand movement, may be but stuff trying to use it, prefer a Bluetooth ear piece or connection in car over that.
The available options are cheap, work and remove any excuse for holding the phone while on a call.

Anyone that texts or similar in a car needs head examined IMO
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cp8759
post Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 11:36
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 08:30) *
The issue is of course that apart from idiots actually driving while looking at their phone (texting, music control, playing Pokemon or reading the footy scores/Facebook/instagram/WhatsApp etc.) it’s the act of being focused on a phone call (to the detriment of focusing on driving) that creates the danger not whether you’re holding the phone, or have your watch to your face that is the main safety concern.

Using a hand-held mobile phone is a strict liability offence and whether the use of a hand-held mobile phone posed any danger to anyone is irrelevant to guilt or innocence. Conversely, the legislation must be strictly constructed and hand-held must be interpreted as held in one's hand. Otherwise it would be illegal to use a hands-free headset because technically your ear would be "holding" the device up.


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Figaro
post Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 14:49
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Good debate chaps, thanks. I'm not about to go and get one and i'm not looking to try and get one over on the law, i was purely interested in the opinions of others and regulars who have more knowledge on the subject than most.

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jdh
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 08:57
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Put an iphone in one of those arm mounted cases that joggers use, fit it to your lower arm, activate siri and you could use it as a large screen smart watch. Not hand held, no fingers needed to touch it in use, legal? possibly. Sensible? probably not.
There are other offences it could fall under other than the simple 'mobile phone' one of course.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 09:10
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 12:36) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 08:30) *
The issue is of course that apart from idiots actually driving while looking at their phone (texting, music control, playing Pokemon or reading the footy scores/Facebook/instagram/WhatsApp etc.) it’s the act of being focused on a phone call (to the detriment of focusing on driving) that creates the danger not whether you’re holding the phone, or have your watch to your face that is the main safety concern.

Using a hand-held mobile phone is a strict liability offence and whether the use of a hand-held mobile phone posed any danger to anyone is irrelevant to guilt or innocence. Conversely, the legislation must be strictly constructed and hand-held must be interpreted as held in one's hand. Otherwise it would be illegal to use a hands-free headset because technically your ear would be "holding" the device up.

I'm not disagreeing with your first part, the issue is the second, you seem to suggest a phone trapped by your shoulder would be legal? (At least under the mobile phone regs).


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Fredd
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 10:12
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There are a lot of erroneous assumptions being made here, principally around the meaning of "hand-held". I suggest that people read the quite comprehensive CPS guidance concerning these offences before pronouncing on what qualifies and what doesn't.


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666
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 10:58
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 11:12) *
There are a lot of erroneous assumptions being made here, principally around the meaning of "hand-held". I suggest that people read the quite comprehensive CPS guidance concerning these offences before pronouncing on what qualifies and what doesn't.


There is at least one statement in those guidelines which does not seem to be supported by the legislation, i.e. "A phone or device will be in use where it is making or receiving a call, or performing any other interactive communication function whether with another person or not."

And of course the CPS can only speak for certain parts of the UK.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 8 Oct 2018 - 12:02
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and of course the CPS only interpret the law, the courts may (and often do) interpret it differently..

Found this under 'public interest' However, if the vehicle is stationary and parked safely at the time the mobile phone is used, it will not normally be in the public interest to prosecute the offence" as it doesn't seem to describe someone 'driving' and hence the legislation wouldn't create an offence for them not to prosecute 'in the public interest' anyway!


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