Lambeth Council Bus Lane PCN Motorcycle / Motorbike Options

[Motorist2018]

Hi all,

Please can anyone help; I have received a total of 6 PCN's for driving my motorcycle on a bus lane on Lambeth Road. The first ticket was issued on 08/11/18 with the offense occurring 10/10/18, by then I had driven on the bus lane another 5 times subsequently receiving the tickets in between those dates.
Dates:
10/10/2018
15/10/2018
16/10/2018
19/10/2018
23/10/2018
07/11/2018

I have tried to challenge each of the ticket on the bases that I didn't travel 20 meters on the bus lane, unfortunately all have been refused. I have since (17/12/18) been trying to email Lambeth to ask if all the PCN can be combined as one penalty charge since I was not aware I was making the offense until after I received the first PCN. They have not replied, instead I have received a response letter for each PCN to pay the full amount otherwise it will go to court.

Any advice?

Thanks,

Attached File(s)

 2018_1130__Response_LJ10312888_ID_BLANKED.pdf ( 99.82K ) Number of downloads: 84
 2019_0130_Response_LJ1035838A.pdf ( 275.04K ) Number of downloads: 79
 2018_1010_PCN_Lambeth_LJ10312888_ID_BLANKED.pdf ( 107.55K ) Number of downloads: 73

 

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[Motorist2018]

Hi, I am scheduled to attend the tribunal court on 29th June 2019 at 09:00 for PCN LJ10395331, however I have not heard from them to confirm whether they will challenge or not.

Does the council need to confirm whether they are contesting before the court date? if so, how long before the court date do they have?

[cp8759]

Hi, I am scheduled to attend the tribunal court on 29th June 2019 at 09:00 for PCN LJ10395331, however I have not heard from them to confirm whether they will challenge or not.

Does the council need to confirm whether they are contesting before the court date? if so, how long before the court date do they have?

Look on the tribunal website and see if they've uploaded any evidence.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 - 11:50

[Motorist2018]

Hi, I am scheduled to attend the tribunal court on 29th June 2019 at 09:00 for PCN LJ10395331, however I have not heard from them to confirm whether they will challenge or not.

Does the council need to confirm whether they are contesting before the court date? if so, how long before the court date do they have?

Look on the tribunal website and see if they've uploaded any evidence.

I have tried to find the portal/page on the https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/ website and can not see where I would look to get the information. Are you able to advise where exactly on the tribunal website?

[cp8759]

Go to https://londontribunals.org.uk/ and clock on "Track or update my appeal"

[Motorist2018]

Go to https://londontribunals.org.uk/ and clock on "Track or update my appeal"

Thank you, the council haven't uploaded their evidence pack. I was advised that they should send me the pack 3 days before the court date (29/06/19).

[cp8759]

Go to https://londontribunals.org.uk/ and clock on "Track or update my appeal"

Thank you, the council haven't uploaded their evidence pack. I was advised that they should send me the pack 3 days before the court date (29/06/19).

No, it has to be at least 7 days before the hearing, otherwise it's inadmissible see Martin H A Thomson v London Borough of Brent (2190095074, 29 May 2019) here: http://bit.ly/2Xiq5QF

Have you heard anything from the council about PCNs LJ1033150A, LJ1035838A and LJ10334847?

[PASTMYBEST]

7 days is not set in stone, 3 days could be deemed adequate


2160237828

The council is under a duty to serve its evidence upon an appellant in good time for the hearing of the appeal so as to allow an appellant in accordance with the adjudicators' requirements at least three clear days in which to consider it.
The appellant, who appeared before me today, said that she had on just received the council's evidence my noting from the postmark on the envelope in which it had been posted to her that it had been despatched on 28 June.
I was satisfied due to the late service of evidence in this case that the appellant was potentially prejudiced in the conduct of her appeal and found for that reason that enforcement may not be pursued.
The appeal was accordingly allowed.

[cp8759]

7 days is not set in stone, 3 days could be deemed adequate


2160237828

The council is under a duty to serve its evidence upon an appellant in good time for the hearing of the appeal so as to allow an appellant in accordance with the adjudicators' requirements at least three clear days in which to consider it.
The appellant, who appeared before me today, said that she had on just received the council's evidence my noting from the postmark on the envelope in which it had been posted to her that it had been despatched on 28 June.
I was satisfied due to the late service of evidence in this case that the appellant was potentially prejudiced in the conduct of her appeal and found for that reason that enforcement may not be pursued.
The appeal was accordingly allowed.

That's a parking case that falls under the Traffic Management Act 2004, different legislation and different rules of evidence.

[nextdoor]

7 days is not set in stone, 3 days could be deemed adequate

It also depends on the adjudicator. I had an appeal where the councils evidence pack was received the day before the hearing, (with proof of postmarked envelope 2 days before hearing)

When I raised this with the adjudicator, he refused to allow the appeal on those grounds and gave me the choice of ether hearing the appeal at that time or postponing the appeal to a later date in order that I could have sufficient time to study their evidence.

[PASTMYBEST]

7 days is not set in stone, 3 days could be deemed adequate


2160237828

The council is under a duty to serve its evidence upon an appellant in good time for the hearing of the appeal so as to allow an appellant in accordance with the adjudicators' requirements at least three clear days in which to consider it.
The appellant, who appeared before me today, said that she had on just received the council's evidence my noting from the postmark on the envelope in which it had been posted to her that it had been despatched on 28 June.
I was satisfied due to the late service of evidence in this case that the appellant was potentially prejudiced in the conduct of her appeal and found for that reason that enforcement may not be pursued.
The appeal was accordingly allowed.

That's a parking case that falls under the Traffic Management Act 2004, different legislation and different rules of evidence.

Give us a link to the regs

[Motorist2018]

Go to https://londontribunals.org.uk/ and clock on "Track or update my appeal"

Thank you, the council haven't uploaded their evidence pack. I was advised that they should send me the pack 3 days before the court date (29/06/19).

No, it has to be at least 7 days before the hearing, otherwise it's inadmissible see Martin H A Thomson v London Borough of Brent (2190095074, 29 May 2019) here: http://bit.ly/2Xiq5QF

Have you heard anything from the council about PCNs LJ1033150A, LJ1035838A and LJ10334847?

No, I haven't heard anything about the other PCNs LJ1033150A, LJ1035838A and LJ10334847

[cp8759]

Give us a link to the regs

http://bit.ly/2BogLi4 see Schedule 1, paragraph 7 (Admissibility of certain evidence), then sub-paragraph 6:

(6) Nothing in sub-paragraph (1) or (4) above makes a document admissible as evidence in proceedings under paragraph 6 above unless a copy of it has not less than 7 days before the hearing, been served on the appellant; and nothing in those paragraphs makes a document admissible as evidence of anything other than the matters shown on a record produced by a prescribed device if that person, not less than three days before the hearing or within such further time as the traffic adjudicator may in special circumstances allow, serves a notice on the enforcing authority requiring attendance at the hearing or trial of the person who signed the document.

No, I haven't heard anything about the other PCNs LJ1033150A, LJ1035838A and LJ10334847

I would ring the tribunal and check if these PCNs have been referred to them by the council (you'll need to explain that the county court has revoked an Order for Recovery for these PCNs, and you're expecting the council to refer the case to the adjudicator). If they confirm the council has sent these cases over, ask if the four PCNs can all be consolidated into a single hearing.

Let us know what they say.

[PASTMYBEST]

Give us a link to the regs

http://bit.ly/2BogLi4 see Schedule 1, paragraph 7 (Admissibility of certain evidence), then sub-paragraph 6:

(6) Nothing in sub-paragraph (1) or (4) above makes a document admissible as evidence in proceedings under paragraph 6 above unless a copy of it has not less than 7 days before the hearing, been served on the appellant; and nothing in those paragraphs makes a document admissible as evidence of anything other than the matters shown on a record produced by a prescribed device if that person, not less than three days before the hearing or within such further time as the traffic adjudicator may in special circumstances allow, serves a notice on the enforcing authority requiring attendance at the hearing or trial of the person who signed the document.

I see your point, though technically it only applies to the CCTV and the witness statement The right to require the signatory of the WS is the fundamental thing. This must be communicated

2180178346

[cp8759]

I see your point, though technically it only applies to the CCTV and the witness statement The right to require the signatory of the WS is the fundamental thing. This must be communicated

2180178346

I don't see why it only applies to the CCTV, the reg says "nothing in those paragraphs makes a document admissible as evidence of anything other than the matters shown on a record produced by a prescribed device", so anything that hasn't come from an approved device becomes inadmissible if a counter-notice is served. I don't see how a NoR could be admissible if a counter-notice is served and the author doesn't turn up.

Funnily enough I've just received H&F's rejection templates and the bus lane version does indeed advise them of all of the above, though I don't think we can demand the NoR spells all this out because the requirement is just to "describe in general terms the form and manner in which such an appeal must be made".

[Motorist2018]

Give us a link to the regs

http://bit.ly/2BogLi4 see Schedule 1, paragraph 7 (Admissibility of certain evidence), then sub-paragraph 6:

(6) Nothing in sub-paragraph (1) or (4) above makes a document admissible as evidence in proceedings under paragraph 6 above unless a copy of it has not less than 7 days before the hearing, been served on the appellant; and nothing in those paragraphs makes a document admissible as evidence of anything other than the matters shown on a record produced by a prescribed device if that person, not less than three days before the hearing or within such further time as the traffic adjudicator may in special circumstances allow, serves a notice on the enforcing authority requiring attendance at the hearing or trial of the person who signed the document.

No, I haven't heard anything about the other PCNs LJ1033150A, LJ1035838A and LJ10334847

I would ring the tribunal and check if these PCNs have been referred to them by the council (you'll need to explain that the county court has revoked an Order for Recovery for these PCNs, and you're expecting the council to refer the case to the adjudicator). If they confirm the council has sent these cases over, ask if the four PCNs can all be consolidated into a single hearing.

Let us know what they say.

Funny enough I have just received the 'notice of appeal' forms for the other 3 PCN's, all dated 20/06/19:

LJ10334847 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/8vu0jkgl6ludyug/2...Appeal.pdf?dl=0
LJ1035828A - https://www.dropbox.com/s/aroyc5ieeks7mdu/2...Appeal.pdf?dl=0
LJ1033150A - https://www.dropbox.com/s/genffrogi2go05x/2...Appeal.pdf?dl=0

Please advise whether I should still call the London Tribunal? or complete the forms (if completing the form please advise what I should fill in. Thanks

[cp8759]

Funny enough I have just received the 'notice of appeal' forms for the other 3 PCN's, all dated 20/06/19:

LJ10334847 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/8vu0jkgl6ludyug/2...Appeal.pdf?dl=0
LJ1035828A - https://www.dropbox.com/s/aroyc5ieeks7mdu/2...Appeal.pdf?dl=0
LJ1033150A - https://www.dropbox.com/s/genffrogi2go05x/2...Appeal.pdf?dl=0

Please advise whether I should still call the London Tribunal? or complete the forms (if completing the form please advise what I should fill in. Thanks

There's no point in filling in the paper form, just log an appeal on the tribunal website for all 3 PCNs, using the appeal code on the letters. In the reasons box just write "detailed grounds to follow", once you have logged the three appeals, I would call London Tribunals and ask for all four PCNs to be dealt with at the same hearing.

[Motorist2018]

Give us a link to the regs

http://bit.ly/2BogLi4 see Schedule 1, paragraph 7 (Admissibility of certain evidence), then sub-paragraph 6:

(6) Nothing in sub-paragraph (1) or (4) above makes a document admissible as evidence in proceedings under paragraph 6 above unless a copy of it has not less than 7 days before the hearing, been served on the appellant; and nothing in those paragraphs makes a document admissible as evidence of anything other than the matters shown on a record produced by a prescribed device if that person, not less than three days before the hearing or within such further time as the traffic adjudicator may in special circumstances allow, serves a notice on the enforcing authority requiring attendance at the hearing or trial of the person who signed the document.

No, I haven't heard anything about the other PCNs LJ1033150A, LJ1035838A and LJ10334847

I would ring the tribunal and check if these PCNs have been referred to them by the council (you'll need to explain that the county court has revoked an Order for Recovery for these PCNs, and you're expecting the council to refer the case to the adjudicator). If they confirm the council has sent these cases over, ask if the four PCNs can all be consolidated into a single hearing.

Let us know what they say.

Spoke to the tribunal today, they have not scheduled the hearing for the 3 PCNs and advised me to wait till I get the confirmation email from them before calling back and trying to have all 4 PCNs heard together. I didn't ask them if the PCNs have been referred to them by the council, I will do this when I speak to them tomorrow (once I have the scheduled date).

In regards to the already scheduled court date; 29th June 2019 at 09:00 for PCN LJ10395331 - I still haven't received the evidence pack from the council. If I don't receive by tomorrow (i.e. 3 days before the hearing), should I still try to re-schedule the court date so that it can be heard with the other 3 PCNs? i.e. if the council hasn't sent the evidence perhaps they may not challenge this PCN.

[Motorist2018]

Give us a link to the regs

http://bit.ly/2BogLi4 see Schedule 1, paragraph 7 (Admissibility of certain evidence), then sub-paragraph 6:

(6) Nothing in sub-paragraph (1) or (4) above makes a document admissible as evidence in proceedings under paragraph 6 above unless a copy of it has not less than 7 days before the hearing, been served on the appellant; and nothing in those paragraphs makes a document admissible as evidence of anything other than the matters shown on a record produced by a prescribed device if that person, not less than three days before the hearing or within such further time as the traffic adjudicator may in special circumstances allow, serves a notice on the enforcing authority requiring attendance at the hearing or trial of the person who signed the document.

No, I haven't heard anything about the other PCNs LJ1033150A, LJ1035838A and LJ10334847

I would ring the tribunal and check if these PCNs have been referred to them by the council (you'll need to explain that the county court has revoked an Order for Recovery for these PCNs, and you're expecting the council to refer the case to the adjudicator). If they confirm the council has sent these cases over, ask if the four PCNs can all be consolidated into a single hearing.

Let us know what they say.

Spoke to the tribunal today, they have not scheduled the hearing for the 3 PCNs and advised me to wait till I get the confirmation email from them before calling back and trying to have all 4 PCNs heard together. I didn't ask them if the PCNs have been referred to them by the council, I will do this when I speak to them tomorrow (once I have the scheduled date).

In regards to the already scheduled court date; 29th June 2019 at 09:00 for PCN LJ10395331 - I still haven't received the evidence pack from the council. If I don't receive by tomorrow (i.e. 3 days before the hearing), should I still try to re-schedule the court date so that it can be heard with the other 3 PCNs? i.e. if the council hasn't sent the evidence perhaps they may not challenge this PCN.

Received the assigned tribunal court date for the 3 PCN (03/08). Please advise whether I should call and ask to add the other PCN?
Still haven’t received the council evidence pack for the hearing on Saturday 29th June.

[cp8759]

Received the assigned tribunal court date for the 3 PCN (03/08). Please advise whether I should call and ask to add the other PCN?
Still haven’t received the council evidence pack for the hearing on Saturday 29th June.

Call them back and ask if all four PCNs can be dealt with together on 3 August, point out to them that they all relate to the same bus lane so there's no point in having separate hearings.

[Motorist2018]

Received the assigned tribunal court date for the 3 PCN (03/08). Please advise whether I should call and ask to add the other PCN?
Still haven’t received the council evidence pack for the hearing on Saturday 29th June.

Call them back and ask if all four PCNs can be dealt with together on 3 August, point out to them that they all relate to the same bus lane so there's no point in having separate hearings.

Good news, I have just heard from the tribunal and the council will not contest the PCN LJ10395331 and hence I do not need to attend the court 29th June 2019. Thats 3 down, 3 to go...