Failed to buy ticket in Excel Parking carpark during lockdown, mistakenly assuming it was a council car park. |
Failed to buy ticket in Excel Parking carpark during lockdown, mistakenly assuming it was a council car park. |
Sun, 12 Jul 2020 - 13:19
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 12 Jul 2020 Member No.: 109,107 |
Hi, everyone.
First of all, please allow me to confirm that I have searched the forum for an answer to my question and was unable to find a suitable answer. During lockdown, local council's made parking free. I made the mistake of parking in a private car park run by Excel Parking that uses ANPR, and not realising that it was actually private. In hindsight, I should have read the sign, but at the time, I was under the impression that it was a council car park that was run by a third-party. Obviously, knowing that ANPR was in force and I would risk a fine, I would not knowingly just ignore that and not buy a ticket. To make matters worse, I looked at the few other cars in the carpark, and saw they had no tickets which confirmed what I suspected. Again, in hindsight, given that the carpark used ANPR, I see why a ticket didn't even have to be displayed, but at the time it hadn't occurred to me. I was in the carpark for 17 minutes in total. I tried to appeal, but they basically said that I should have read the signs. The next step would be kangaroo court. I don't know where to go from here. I am on quite a low income and the fine is currently £60, going up to £100 if I don't pay within 14 days. Apparently, if they get debt collectors involved, it will go up to £160. I've never had a parking ticket before and I don't know how to go about this. It was an honest mistake in the midst of the confusion lockdown. I don't know what to do. Unfortunately, £60 is not exactly easy for me to come by. Do I have anything that might work in my favour? Please help. I feel like I am being treated like a criminal and already suffer from extreme anxiety. Thank you. This post has been edited by thefuzzy0ne: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 - 13:20 |
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Sun, 12 Jul 2020 - 13:19
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Sun, 12 Jul 2020 - 13:44
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,587 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
So you've revealed the driver?
This ain't going to be easy - Excel are litigious so a court claim is quite likely. There's nothing you can say to get them to cancel it. However, the £60 escalation may help you but I'd start preparing for a court claim. This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 - 17:09 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Sun, 12 Jul 2020 - 15:17
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#3
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 12 Jul 2020 Member No.: 109,107 |
However, the £60 escalation my help you but I'd start preparing for a court claim. At the moment, it's just a £60 fine. Are you suggesting I should just pay it? I don't want to waste the time of the courts or risk a higher fine. I was just curious as to where I might stand legally with regards to it being a totally honest and legitimate mistake due to my misunderstanding some unusual (as in, doesn't happen often, if at all) new rules issued in rare circumstances. I take it his/her honour would not be likely to rule in my favour? Thank you for your reply. This post has been edited by thefuzzy0ne: Sun, 12 Jul 2020 - 15:17 |
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Sun, 12 Jul 2020 - 15:54
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,265 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
The £60 escalation is just that, from the current £100 to the £160 you mentioned....
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Sun, 12 Jul 2020 - 16:05
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,124 Joined: 8 Feb 2013 Member No.: 59,842 |
No one is suggesting you pay this. You can beat it, but it's likely to take a court hearing to get it cancelled. A court case is months (even years) away. Excel have 6 years to pursue a legal case against you. But you need to read as many as possible of recent (2020) Excel threads so you get a far better idea than you seem to have currently about how these cases move forward.
QUOTE I should have read the sign, but at the time, I was under the impression that it was a council car park that was run by a third-party. That's your main error, assume nothing and always read signs in any car park - council or private. A lesson for the future. If everyone read the signs and complied, private parking firms would go bust, fast. QUOTE I was just curious as to where I might stand legally with regards to it being a totally honest and legitimate mistake due to my misunderstanding some unusual (as in, doesn't happen often, if at all) new rules issued in rare circumstances. I take it his/her honour would not be likely to rule in my favour? Courts deal with the law, mitigating circumstances in isolation are not what you try to plead. There's no second guessing how a Judge might rule. You need to be looking at arguing a case that Excel failed in terms of signage, having landowner authority, meeting the IPC Code of Practice, the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) to hold the keeper liable. All this takes research - but the PePiPoo forum holds all the information you need to start the process. You will also find a comprehensive resource on MoneySavingExpert, here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discus...rst-thankyou/p1 None of this stuff is easy and straightforward; there is no silver bullet, but there's great satisfaction in preventing a private company picking your pocket! |
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Sun, 12 Jul 2020 - 16:53
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#6
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 12 Jul 2020 Member No.: 109,107 |
The £60 escalation is just that, from the current £100 to the £160 you mentioned.... Sorry, just to be clear: The PCN was for £100. If I paid it within 14 days, the total payable will be £60. If I ignore it and they have to get debt collectors involved, the total payable becomes £160. I hope this clarifies the situation. I'm thinking that ultimately, whilst it was an honest mistake, no-one is going to cut me a break and it's too risky fighting it. I already suffer from anxiety and this situation will certainly not help, especially if I end up having to pay more or have bailiffs turning up on my doorstep. I don't have any evidence to support my claim and I have no proof that Excel Parking were in the wrong, as I don't believe they were. The signage is clear, but to my knowledge, many council car parks had not updated their signage to state that parking was free and I thought this was one of them. I just thought that they might be more understanding, but I totally understand now that I was stupid to expect that. Unless anyone has any glimmer of hope to add based on the information I have provided above, I will consider the case closed. Thank you all for your help. It's great to know that there are people willing to help others - which is something you don't see enough of these days. This is certainly a mistake I will not be making again. |
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Sun, 12 Jul 2020 - 17:34
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#7
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 12 Jul 2020 Member No.: 109,107 |
As an aside: On my PCN letter, it said something along the lines of "free parking allowed: 0 minutes" or something like that. If they don't allow any free time, how are you supposed to read the signage, decide whether or not you agree to the conditions? Surely, they don't expect you to read them as you drive past?
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Sun, 12 Jul 2020 - 17:36
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,124 Joined: 8 Feb 2013 Member No.: 59,842 |
QUOTE or have bailiffs turning up on my doorstep. This just can't happen out of the blue. It can only happen if you either ignore any court claim, or you lose in court then fail (or refuse) to pay the costs order (max ~£175) by the deadline (14 - 28 days) and the PPC has a Warrant of Execution approved. So really your 75" Samsung, you car (and your cat) are all safe. Before knee jerking into paying (and if you have some time available before the £60 deadline by which you are anxious to enrich Excel expires), try reading some other Excel threads - there's plenty around here and MSE - and make your decision based on better information and understanding than that spawned by panic. I can't recall the last time Excel won a court case against a forum-assisted defence. You do know that the Excel MD is a multi-millionaire, pays himself around three quarters of a million pounds a year, privately educates his children when they're not riding their ponies at gymkhana events up and down the country, and is reputed to own a private yacht sailing the Mediterranean and Caribbean seas. And all he does to earn his millions is simply to catch out unaware motorists, then hound, harass and intimidate them into reaching for their chequebooks. Are you still wanting to drop him 60 quid? |
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Mon, 13 Jul 2020 - 07:31
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,265 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Dear Lord, This £60 escalation, as I said from £100 to £160.
This £60 Apparently, if they get debt collectors involved, it will go up to £160. Nothing to do with the £60 offer if you settle early as that would be a £40 reduction and not a £60 escalation. As noted earlier, the courts are treating this as an abuse of process and some claims have been rejected without even going to a hearing because of this. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 13 Jul 2020 - 14:24
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 364 Joined: 30 Apr 2013 Member No.: 61,506 |
The £60 escalation is just that, from the current £100 to the £160 you mentioned.... Sorry, just to be clear: The PCN was for £100. If I paid it within 14 days, the total payable will be £60. If I ignore it and they have to get debt collectors involved, the total payable becomes £160. I hope this clarifies the situation. I'm thinking that ultimately, whilst it was an honest mistake, no-one is going to cut me a break and it's too risky fighting it. I already suffer from anxiety and this situation will certainly not help, especially if I end up having to pay more or have bailiffs turning up on my doorstep. I don't have any evidence to support my claim and I have no proof that Excel Parking were in the wrong, as I don't believe they were. The signage is clear, but to my knowledge, many council car parks had not updated their signage to state that parking was free and I thought this was one of them. I just thought that they might be more understanding, but I totally understand now that I was stupid to expect that. Unless anyone has any glimmer of hope to add based on the information I have provided above, I will consider the case closed. Thank you all for your help. It's great to know that there are people willing to help others - which is something you don't see enough of these days. This is certainly a mistake I will not be making again. Although I am loathe to suggest it, if you want it 'gone', try pay the £60 within the 14 days. This settles the matter, and you won't do it again. As mentioned above, dealing with PPCs can be time consuming and potentially out of pocket anyway (even if you win, you may find your costs will not be met. It's pretty easy to rack up £60 of costs in travel, time off work, printing and stationery etc). Almost everyone on this board recommends you fight (hence the name of the board) but I do realise people often just pay. Here, you are in trouble. You've admitted being the driver, the signs are probably clear (though there may be avenues of attack) and this PPC is known to take people to court. This is probably winnable, but you will need to sink hours of time, and possibly a court appearance on winning this one. If you genuinely can't afford the £60, then write, offering what you can and time to pay; but be firm and do not accept them increasing it to £100. |
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Mon, 13 Jul 2020 - 17:19
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,587 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
The charge is £100. They will only accept £60 if you meet their deadline. (It's a discount offer for early settlement)
If you paid £60 the week after it was due they'd probably still issue a claim for the other £40. If the signs were there to be read then the contract is accepted by conduct, i.e. parking, even if you didn't actually read them. They are not guaranteed to make a claim, but between them and their sister company (VCS) they are the most litigious parking firm. I would be surprised if a claim wasn't issued somewhere within the 6 year timeframe to do so. That all said, they are beatable but there's no simple way. There are no magic words to get it cancelled now. As noted, they will add the £60 on which is causing a few headaches for many parking companies as this is gaining momentum on cases being struck out. Worst case would be a judgment for around £200-250. £60 is outrageous too but you can see why there's some excitement about private parking as a record number of tickets (8.4 million) have been issued again in 2019 so something ain't right... Read here. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Sat, 18 Jul 2020 - 13:33
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#12
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 12 Jul 2020 Member No.: 109,107 |
Thank you to everyone who has contributed to the discussion and helped. You all helped immensely and you should all be happy (or at least smugly satisfied) in knowing that it has been greatly appreciated.
I will just have to suck it up and pay it, since I can't risk it going any higher. Really, I just wanted to see if I had a leg to stand on since I made an honest mistake, but obviously I don't. I will be able to scrape £60 together. It will just mean going without a few things for a month or so. Not the end of the world. Definitely a lesson learned though. I will be carefully reading the fine print for ALL car parks I park in. However, I'm still unclear about how they can give 0 minutes free. What if I drove in and didn't like the prices or the contract and left. Do I not have the right to do that? Am I expected to read the signage before entering the car park? |
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Sat, 18 Jul 2020 - 14:12
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,587 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
What if I drove in and didn't like the prices or the contract and left. Do I not have the right to do that? Yes. They usually allow at least 5 minutes for that. This post has been edited by Jlc: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 - 14:12 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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