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A4 Hammersmith FlyOver Frequent Police Radar
speedfighter23
post Wed, 10 Jun 2020 - 20:44
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Hi guys,


If any of you drive on the A4 westbound over the Hammersmith flyover, be very careful as over the past few weeks at least 4 times I have seen Police right at the end of the flyover where it goes from 30 to 40 MPH. I do this trip almost everyday and before the lockdown I have never seen them before, so this is a clear target of the Met Police Road Unit.

Since everyone knows the speed for the flyover is very low and pretty much everyone speeds there before the 40 comes up, it is literally the best place in London to catch speeding motorists and they are probably printing money, easily 50 speeding tickets an hour if they are bothered to stay there and catch everyone. And very hidden as well, they park the Police Car under the bridge on the left side and a Policeman/woman is standing next to the railing at the end of the bridge.

Sneaky, so whoever presses the gas a bit early on one of the main roads leaving London westbound, be careful! I can't be bothered staring at my speedo, so most of those roads I just put my cruise control to 24/35/46/57/68/80 MPH, as my speedo overreads by at least 2 MPH. So far so good, the only speeding punishment I got was when I was caught out on the M25 when it went from 70 to 60 on the variable speed limit for no reason and I wasn't paying attention enough so got caught by the Hadecs 3 on J16 northbound and did my motorway awareness course! (so I still have a speed awareness course in the bank and NIL points on the licence)

Either people are speeding more or I am noticing more, today alone I have seen Speed cameras flash (not for me) 3 times, one on the famous 20 MPH embankment roads where the cameras are now set for 20 not 30 since the recent speed limit change, and the other 2 on the famous M25 variable speed limits from 70 to 60.

Oh and the icing on the cake; Park Lane has its speed limit lowered from 40 to 20 MPH and 2 lanes removed (4-2) to make bus/cycle lanes! God help us!

This post has been edited by speedfighter23: Wed, 10 Jun 2020 - 20:53


--------------------
Police Speeding Fines - Police 1 - speedfighter23 0
TFL traffic contraventions 0 - speedfighter23 2
Kensington and Chelsea 0 parking contraventions - speedfighter23 1
Brighton and Hove parking 0 - speedfighter23 1
Private PCN - Private Parking Solutions Limited 0 - speedfighter23 1

Tyre Puncture Pothole Claims:
0 Buckinghamshire Council - speedfighter23 1
0 TFL - speedfighter23 1

Result Pending:

1 Islington Council tyre puncture claim
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post Wed, 10 Jun 2020 - 20:44
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Jlc
post Thu, 11 Jun 2020 - 09:24
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Well someone has to pay back the debt wink.gif

(Although these fines will be a drop in the ocean)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 - 09:25


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 11 Jun 2020 - 13:48
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Almost certainly not radar of course.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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speedfighter23
post Thu, 11 Jun 2020 - 22:25
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 11 Jun 2020 - 14:48) *
Almost certainly not radar of course.


The handheld thing the police have, whatever it is called!


--------------------
Police Speeding Fines - Police 1 - speedfighter23 0
TFL traffic contraventions 0 - speedfighter23 2
Kensington and Chelsea 0 parking contraventions - speedfighter23 1
Brighton and Hove parking 0 - speedfighter23 1
Private PCN - Private Parking Solutions Limited 0 - speedfighter23 1

Tyre Puncture Pothole Claims:
0 Buckinghamshire Council - speedfighter23 1
0 TFL - speedfighter23 1

Result Pending:

1 Islington Council tyre puncture claim
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The Rookie
post Fri, 12 Jun 2020 - 14:18
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Usually laser now. Radar can’t/shouldn’t be used when two cars are in field of view so pretty useless on a dual carriageway, laser is targeted and can.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Incandescent
post Fri, 12 Jun 2020 - 19:10
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We now know what life is like under the Taliban !

For those not in the know, for every Speed Awareness Course the police identify, (and the vast majority of the Hammersmith Flyover catches are likely to be within the guidelines), the Met get about £40 of the course fee of £100. It is the only crime in the vast lexicon of crime we have in the UK that they enforce that nets them cash. So you can see why they do this and ignore other crime completely.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Fri, 12 Jun 2020 - 19:13
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The Slithy Tove
post Sat, 13 Jun 2020 - 10:54
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QUOTE (speedfighter23 @ Wed, 10 Jun 2020 - 21:44) *
Either people are speeding more or I am noticing more

I was travelling round the M25 quite regularly during the height of the lockdown, so traffic levels were very light indeed, the vast majority commercial vehicles and vans, very few cars. Most seemed to be sticking to the limit (which was almost always NSL, with the occasional 60 for no particular reason), probably because of the number of speed cameras on that motorway. As traffic increased, and the number of private cars increased, most still stuck to the limit with some just taking the p**s and blasting down the outside lane. The scope for speeding on roads like the M25 in rush hour, and the A-road arteries in London is obviously much greater than it was.

QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 12 Jun 2020 - 20:10) *
For those not in the know, for every Speed Awareness Course the police identify, (and the vast majority of the Hammersmith Flyover catches are likely to be within the guidelines), the Met get about £40 of the course fee of £100. It is the only crime in the vast lexicon of crime we have in the UK that they enforce that nets them cash. So you can see why they do this and ignore other crime completely.

The alternative being that 100% of the £100 fine goes to the treasury. Which would you prefer?
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speedfighter23
post Sat, 13 Jun 2020 - 21:38
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QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Sat, 13 Jun 2020 - 11:54) *
QUOTE (speedfighter23 @ Wed, 10 Jun 2020 - 21:44) *
Either people are speeding more or I am noticing more

I was travelling round the M25 quite regularly during the height of the lockdown, so traffic levels were very light indeed, the vast majority commercial vehicles and vans, very few cars. Most seemed to be sticking to the limit (which was almost always NSL, with the occasional 60 for no particular reason), probably because of the number of speed cameras on that motorway. As traffic increased, and the number of private cars increased, most still stuck to the limit with some just taking the p**s and blasting down the outside lane. The scope for speeding on roads like the M25 in rush hour, and the A-road arteries in London is obviously much greater than it was.

QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 12 Jun 2020 - 20:10) *
For those not in the know, for every Speed Awareness Course the police identify, (and the vast majority of the Hammersmith Flyover catches are likely to be within the guidelines), the Met get about £40 of the course fee of £100. It is the only crime in the vast lexicon of crime we have in the UK that they enforce that nets them cash. So you can see why they do this and ignore other crime completely.

The alternative being that 100% of the £100 fine goes to the treasury. Which would you prefer?


I would prefer less enforcement of speeding and no cameras on the streets, just have police checkpoints for obviously speeding drivers who overdo it.


--------------------
Police Speeding Fines - Police 1 - speedfighter23 0
TFL traffic contraventions 0 - speedfighter23 2
Kensington and Chelsea 0 parking contraventions - speedfighter23 1
Brighton and Hove parking 0 - speedfighter23 1
Private PCN - Private Parking Solutions Limited 0 - speedfighter23 1

Tyre Puncture Pothole Claims:
0 Buckinghamshire Council - speedfighter23 1
0 TFL - speedfighter23 1

Result Pending:

1 Islington Council tyre puncture claim
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Incandescent
post Sat, 13 Jun 2020 - 21:52
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QUOTE (The Slithy Tove @ Sat, 13 Jun 2020 - 11:54) *
QUOTE (speedfighter23 @ Wed, 10 Jun 2020 - 21:44) *
Either people are speeding more or I am noticing more

I was travelling round the M25 quite regularly during the height of the lockdown, so traffic levels were very light indeed, the vast majority commercial vehicles and vans, very few cars. Most seemed to be sticking to the limit (which was almost always NSL, with the occasional 60 for no particular reason), probably because of the number of speed cameras on that motorway. As traffic increased, and the number of private cars increased, most still stuck to the limit with some just taking the p**s and blasting down the outside lane. The scope for speeding on roads like the M25 in rush hour, and the A-road arteries in London is obviously much greater than it was.

QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 12 Jun 2020 - 20:10) *
For those not in the know, for every Speed Awareness Course the police identify, (and the vast majority of the Hammersmith Flyover catches are likely to be within the guidelines), the Met get about £40 of the course fee of £100. It is the only crime in the vast lexicon of crime we have in the UK that they enforce that nets them cash. So you can see why they do this and ignore other crime completely.

The alternative being that 100% of the £100 fine goes to the treasury. Which would you prefer?

To the Treasury of course. And it is not a fine, it is a fee as no court is involved.
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thisisntme
post Sat, 13 Jun 2020 - 23:56
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This is not at all new. I was doing work in that part of London for a few weeks 4 years ago, and there was a policeman on the end every day.


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cp8759
post Mon, 15 Jun 2020 - 12:36
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 12 Jun 2020 - 20:10) *
We now know what life is like under the Taliban !

That's a little bit of an exaggeration I would suggest. If the people of Hammersmith wanted a higher speed limit on the flyover, they could after all elect councillors keen on increasing the limit.

QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 12 Jun 2020 - 20:10) *
For those not in the know, for every Speed Awareness Course the police identify, (and the vast majority of the Hammersmith Flyover catches are likely to be within the guidelines), the Met get about £40 of the course fee of £100. It is the only crime in the vast lexicon of crime we have in the UK that they enforce that nets them cash. So you can see why they do this and ignore other crime completely.

You could turn this argument on its head: if the money from the courses pays for the cost of enforcement, we get this policing for "free" as the enforcement activities do not need to be funded out of general taxation. It's not unlike policing at football events where the local club can pay to have an extra police presence.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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speedfighter23
post Mon, 15 Jun 2020 - 12:47
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 15 Jun 2020 - 13:36) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 12 Jun 2020 - 20:10) *
We now know what life is like under the Taliban !

That's a little bit of an exaggeration I would suggest. If the people of Hammersmith wanted a higher speed limit on the flyover, they could after all elect councillors keen on increasing the limit.

QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 12 Jun 2020 - 20:10) *
For those not in the know, for every Speed Awareness Course the police identify, (and the vast majority of the Hammersmith Flyover catches are likely to be within the guidelines), the Met get about £40 of the course fee of £100. It is the only crime in the vast lexicon of crime we have in the UK that they enforce that nets them cash. So you can see why they do this and ignore other crime completely.

You could turn this argument on its head: if the money from the courses pays for the cost of enforcement, we get this policing for "free" as the enforcement activities do not need to be funded out of general taxation. It's not unlike policing at football events where the local club can pay to have an extra police presence.


Labour generally hates cars so good luck with that!
Just noticed yesterday that the A40 flyover eastbound above White City has just gone down to 30 from 40. Lovely!

This post has been edited by speedfighter23: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 - 12:47


--------------------
Police Speeding Fines - Police 1 - speedfighter23 0
TFL traffic contraventions 0 - speedfighter23 2
Kensington and Chelsea 0 parking contraventions - speedfighter23 1
Brighton and Hove parking 0 - speedfighter23 1
Private PCN - Private Parking Solutions Limited 0 - speedfighter23 1

Tyre Puncture Pothole Claims:
0 Buckinghamshire Council - speedfighter23 1
0 TFL - speedfighter23 1

Result Pending:

1 Islington Council tyre puncture claim
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Korting
post Mon, 15 Jun 2020 - 15:53
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 15 Jun 2020 - 13:36) *
If the people of Hammersmith wanted a higher speed limit on the flyover, they could after all elect councillors keen on increasing the limit.


The A4 is managed by TFL who hate cars even more.
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cp8759
post Mon, 15 Jun 2020 - 16:13
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Well the people of London could vote for a more pro-car party, at the end of the day it's up to them who they want to govern their city.


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TryOut
post Mon, 15 Jun 2020 - 18:46
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QUOTE (speedfighter23 @ Sat, 13 Jun 2020 - 22:38) *
I would prefer less enforcement of speeding and no cameras on the streets, just have police checkpoints for obviously speeding drivers who overdo it.

That’s exactly what we do have.
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speedfighter23
post Mon, 15 Jun 2020 - 22:03
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QUOTE (Korting @ Mon, 15 Jun 2020 - 16:53) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 15 Jun 2020 - 13:36) *
If the people of Hammersmith wanted a higher speed limit on the flyover, they could after all elect councillors keen on increasing the limit.


The A4 is managed by TFL who hate cars even more.


The TFL seem to want 20 MPH speed limits everywhere, especially Park Lane, no more 'gunning' it down the 40 MPH, which was pretty much the only place you could go 40 in Central London. It's getting crazy now, for the A40 White City flyover to be 30 now is outrageous.

All this before Mr Khan's famous congestion charge all the time everytime scheme, but funnily enough the signage in the congestion charge zone has not changed yet even though the changes are due to be made in 1 week time and no announcement on the official congestion charge website!

This post has been edited by speedfighter23: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 - 22:03


--------------------
Police Speeding Fines - Police 1 - speedfighter23 0
TFL traffic contraventions 0 - speedfighter23 2
Kensington and Chelsea 0 parking contraventions - speedfighter23 1
Brighton and Hove parking 0 - speedfighter23 1
Private PCN - Private Parking Solutions Limited 0 - speedfighter23 1

Tyre Puncture Pothole Claims:
0 Buckinghamshire Council - speedfighter23 1
0 TFL - speedfighter23 1

Result Pending:

1 Islington Council tyre puncture claim
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Korting
post Tue, 16 Jun 2020 - 11:07
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QUOTE (speedfighter23 @ Mon, 15 Jun 2020 - 23:03) *
The TFL seem to want 20 MPH speed limits everywhere, especially Park Lane, no more 'gunning' it down the 40 MPH, which was pretty much the only place you could go 40 in Central London. It's getting crazy now, for the A40 White City flyover to be 30 now is outrageous.

All this before Mr Khan's famous congestion charge all the time everytime scheme, but funnily enough the signage in the congestion charge zone has not changed yet even though the changes are due to be made in 1 week time and no announcement on the official congestion charge website!


If the signage is not in place at EVERY location, it cannot be enforced, after all if you enter the zone at a time which is not prescribed on the signs, you can't be guilty can you? Especially if you are from outside London.

I seriously hope it backfires on Khan. I hope drivers don't go into London and pay his ludicrous charges. If people can bring London to its knees because of this, maybe just maybe we'll get a competent Mayor.
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666
post Tue, 16 Jun 2020 - 14:37
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QUOTE (Korting @ Tue, 16 Jun 2020 - 12:07) *
If the signage is not in place at EVERY location, it cannot be enforced,

Are you sure about that?

If you are pictured entering the zone at Location A, which is correctly signed, what is the relevance of any incorrect signage at locations B and C?

This post has been edited by 666: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 - 14:38
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The Rookie
post Tue, 16 Jun 2020 - 14:42
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QUOTE (666 @ Tue, 16 Jun 2020 - 15:37) *
QUOTE (Korting @ Tue, 16 Jun 2020 - 12:07) *
If the signage is not in place at EVERY location, it cannot be enforced,

Are you sure about that?

If you are pictured entering the zone at Location A, which is correctly signed, what is the relevance of any incorrect signage at locations B and C?

Because it’s been established that with civil penalty zones you only have to show that you COULD have entered via an incorrectly signed route to have a valid appeal point, not that you did.
The same does not apply for criminally enforced matters such as speeding.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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cp8759
post Tue, 16 Jun 2020 - 15:16
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 16 Jun 2020 - 15:42) *
Because it’s been established that with civil penalty zones you only have to show that you COULD have entered via an incorrectly signed route to have a valid appeal point, not that you did.
The same does not apply for criminally enforced matters such as speeding.

Both London Tribunals and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal take a rather different view. We would never advise someone to appeal a civil penalty on this basis.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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