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Speeding ticket from Switzerland
sg2015
post Tue, 2 Jan 2018 - 16:14
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I was caught speeding in Switzerland in July, had a form asking for the drivers details to my name & address (registered keeper) come through in November. I filled this in and a fine has been produced, arriving 27th Dec (happy Christmas!). The first letter had German and English, but the second letter only has German, so I've no idea what it says! Apart from the fine is fairly obvious (has a big TOTAL mark)

It's for 136kph in an 80kph, which is then reduced to 130kph due to adjustments. Fine is 2700CHF, approx £2050. No salary was given etc.

What are my options? TIA
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post Tue, 2 Jan 2018 - 16:14
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baroudeur
post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 11:21
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 15:16) *
It all seems pretty self-explanatory now that we can read what it says. £1,960 seems pretty harsh for doing 80 in a 50, but the fact that you would probably be punished less harshly in the UK is neither here nor there.

At this point you need to decide what course of action to take, as it does't sound like you have any defence in law (this somewhat depends on whether you ever plan on visiting Switzerland again). If you don't pay and are ever stopped by the Swiss authorities, it looks like you'd have to pay around £6,300 or risk a stint in jail. On the other had if you ignore it and never visit Switzerland again, I don't see any chance whatsoever of a court entertaining an extradition request, given that at the end of the day it's just a speeding ticket. As Switzerland is not an EU member state, there is no mechanism for them to enforce payment of the fine.


It's NOT 'just a speeding ticket' Speeding in Switzerland is a criminal offence and a serious transgression (and this one was!) could be subject to to prison sentence.

From Swiss motoring penalties

Foreign motorists who do not pay their Swiss fine and whose fine has subsequently been converted to a prison sentence are registered in the police alert database RIPOL for a period of up to three years.

Recovery of such large amounts through a civil debt claim must be tempting. wink.gif
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NewJudge
post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 12:00
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QUOTE (baroudeur @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 12:21) *
It's NOT 'just a speeding ticket' Speeding in Switzerland is a criminal offence and a serious transgression (and this one was!) could be subject to to prison sentence.

Then, apart from the amount levied, it's no different to the UK. Here speeding is a criminal offence and can lead to a prison sentence if any fines remain unpaid.
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Logician
post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 12:38
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QUOTE (baroudeur @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 11:49) *
Speeding is a criminal offence in Switzerland and challenging a speeding penalty, obtained with the use of approved equipment, will be extrememly difficult and expensive. In the UK the advice in similar circumstances, more often than not, is to pay. Whether the Swiss will attempt to recover unpaid penalties as a debt through a civil claim in the UK remains to be seen. Some Italian authorities appear to be using Claims Management Companies but, so far, no court cases have been reported but one International Claims Management Company is pressing hard in the EU for it to be approved for cross border recovery How long before recovery of unpaid penalties within the EU becomes the norm? Some countries already have such agreements in place.


As a fine arising from a criminal offence, on the face of it a UK court appears unlikely to accept it as a civil debt.



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cp8759
post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 17:33
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 13:00) *
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 12:21) *
It's NOT 'just a speeding ticket' Speeding in Switzerland is a criminal offence and a serious transgression (and this one was!) could be subject to to prison sentence.

Then, apart from the amount levied, it's no different to the UK. Here speeding is a criminal offence and can lead to a prison sentence if any fines remain unpaid.

With the difference that it doesn't get recorded on PNC just for three years. Once it gets to the point where the court issues a warrant (assuming all fines / paperwork is ignored), that warrant will stay on PNC pretty much indefinitely (although I think it gets wiped when you're deemed to be 100 years old).


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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baroudeur
post Sun, 22 Apr 2018 - 15:47
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deleted

There was some work on the transnational recovery of fines by the Dutch in 2014. Things have moved on in relation to obtaining owner/keeper/driver details but there appears to be no move by the UK to introduce any legal provision based, it seems, on the fact that we have very few outstanding fines to chase compared to some EC countries, France, Italy and Spain in particular, where foreign registered cars create a very large pool of unpaid fines. The French do appear to be more active and create ghost records at their central processing bureau. At some stage it may be that car registrations with outstanding fines will appear on "PNC" checks as the French are very keen to stop the abuse of speed limits by foreign drivers. The reduction of the national speed limit from 90kph to 80kph in July will, no doubt, create a large increase in offending rates.

Dutch report

This post has been edited by baroudeur: Sun, 22 Apr 2018 - 15:47
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sg2015
post Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 07:23
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Thanks for all the replies. My next step is to request a repayment plan. The lady I spoke with said it happens fairly frequently. At least then the fine will feel less of a hit...
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cp8759
post Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 09:27
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QUOTE (baroudeur @ Sun, 22 Apr 2018 - 16:47) *
deleted

There was some work on the transnational recovery of fines by the Dutch in 2014. Things have moved on in relation to obtaining owner/keeper/driver details but there appears to be no move by the UK to introduce any legal provision based, it seems, on the fact that we have very few outstanding fines to chase compared to some EC countries, France, Italy and Spain in particular, where foreign registered cars create a very large pool of unpaid fines. The French do appear to be more active and create ghost records at their central processing bureau. At some stage it may be that car registrations with outstanding fines will appear on "PNC" checks as the French are very keen to stop the abuse of speed limits by foreign drivers. The reduction of the national speed limit from 90kph to 80kph in July will, no doubt, create a large increase in offending rates.

Dutch report

This is all very interesting, but doesn't change the fact that Switzerland is not in the EU.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 09:49
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Indeed, everything I've found on X-border enforcement relates to EU membership and although Switzerland pays into the EU and is in the free trade area it is NOT a member.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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baroudeur
post Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 14:10
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 09:27) *
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Sun, 22 Apr 2018 - 16:47) *
deleted

There was some work on the transnational recovery of fines by the Dutch in 2014. Things have moved on in relation to obtaining owner/keeper/driver details but there appears to be no move by the UK to introduce any legal provision based, it seems, on the fact that we have very few outstanding fines to chase compared to some EC countries, France, Italy and Spain in particular, where foreign registered cars create a very large pool of unpaid fines. The French do appear to be more active and create ghost records at their central processing bureau. At some stage it may be that car registrations with outstanding fines will appear on "PNC" checks as the French are very keen to stop the abuse of speed limits by foreign drivers. The reduction of the national speed limit from 90kph to 80kph in July will, no doubt, create a large increase in offending rates.

Dutch report

This is all very interesting but doesn't change the fact that Switzerland is not in the EU.


The link was intended to indicate the some national views. Switzerland obtained the OP's details despite the fact they are not a party to the Cross Border agreement so must have access to DVLA records as someone with "reasonable cause"!

The UK also may not be in the EU next year.
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cp8759
post Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 09:34
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QUOTE (baroudeur @ Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 15:10) *
The link was intended to indicate the some national views. Switzerland obtained the OP's details despite the fact they are not a party to the Cross Border agreement so must have access to DVLA records as someone with "reasonable cause"!

The UK also may not be in the EU next year.

The bar for "reasonable cause" that is very low. I suspect that most law enforcement agencies in the world would be able to get details from DVLA if they submitted photos from a speed / red light camera and stated they needed the information to pursue a criminal investigation in relation to a road traffic offence in their territory, as this would plainly be a "reasonable cause".

This post has been edited by cp8759: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 - 09:34


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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