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PCN 27 Parked adjacent to a dropped footway, Parked adjacent to a dropped footway
Katerina236236
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 20:24
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HI!

I wonder if some of you might be able to help. I parked my car along this kerb with posts (15 Grenfell Avenue Hornchurch, England). https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Grenfel...0.1871898?hl=en

Sorry, don't have picture with my car at scene. Please advice how I can word my representation to challenge this and advise if there is any suitable grounds for challenging.

If you need any more info please ask.

Thanks in advance

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post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 20:24
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stamfordman
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 20:35
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OP has PM'd me - have asked her to send me pics of PCN and I'll look for council pics.
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stamfordman
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 21:43
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This is Havering - I've checked and no pics on site. PCN was 12/11 so should be there.

OP - you need to ask council to send you pics as with code 27 the key evidence is the pics. Contact link here:

https://www.havering.gov.uk/info/20004/park...d_traffic_fines

Also show us exactly where this is on the street view link. Others may want to see back of PCN.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.564823,0.18...6384!8i8192


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Katerina236236
post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 10:14
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Hi.
I did requested pics from council, still no answer.
if you'll follow this link, i think it show exact place where i parked 15 Grenfell Ave
Hornchurch, England
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Grenfel...0.1871898?hl=en

Thank you so much for helping me

On the left side of the road, along this kerb with black posts...
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 10:36
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Without photos it is impossible to be sure but if you do not get the photos before the end of the 14 day period challenge that the DK is not lowered for any of the statutory reasons laid out in s86 of TMA 2004

and if they reject demand the photos


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stamfordman
post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 11:07
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If you were on the left hand side as in the street view I can't see it is a contravention as there doesn't look to be a pedestrian crossing or vehicle access.

As PMB says, a simple challenge saying there was no contravention will no doubt result in Havering producing pics if they reject.

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Katerina236236
post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 18:16
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Good evening! I’ve just received pictures PCN 27 from council . Please have a look. Thank you.
Attached thumbnail(s)
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 18:32
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so parked between these two posts

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Grenfel...0.1871898?hl=en


I would take this all the way, there is no contravention




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stamfordman
post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 18:54
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Edit. Actually car wasn't even by the flat entrance. The whole kerb is low along there and there are dropped kerbs opposite but this is not a contravention.

Challenge:

Dear sir/madam,

I was puzzled why I had received PCN no xxxxx for parking adjacent to a dropped footway. I have reviewed the pictures taken by your CEO and I can see no such contravention. I understand that to enforce this contravention there needs to be a dropped footway for a pedestrian crossing, or vehicle or cycle access, and these clearly do not apply at this location. I look forward to your early cancellation of this PCN.

yours



This post has been edited by stamfordman: Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 19:26
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Katerina236236
post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 19:18
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Thank you so much. I'll do this challenge.
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cp8759
post Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 11:25
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I fear the council might content it's a kerb lowered to assist pedestrians in crossing the road. Let's see what they come back with.


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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 12:58
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 11:25) *
I fear the council might content it's a kerb lowered to assist pedestrians in crossing the road. Let's see what they come back with.



Almost undoubtedly, but IMO hard to maintain when if you look at GSV there is a sloping kerb to the right of the driveway, then the lowered section runs for 40 metres to the grass verge where there is no discernible sloping kerb. There is no tactile paving and only driveways opposite


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DancingDad
post Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 13:03
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Can't see a contravention.
As has been said, the kerb must be lowered for a specific purpose not simply at the same level of the carriageway.
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stamfordman
post Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 13:16
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What do we think the posts are for - stopping pavement parking? That's banned anyway.
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DancingDad
post Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 13:48
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 13:16) *
What do we think the posts are for - stopping pavement parking? That's banned anyway.


Dunno.
While the posts may be there to try to show a prohibition, nowt like them in TSRGD or Highway Code.
If council want to rely on them, they will fail.

What I do know is that dropped kerbs have a specific form and there are clues as to purpose.
There is no "form" here, simply a length of kerb that is level with the carriageway.
There are no driveways that would suggest vehicle access, no cycle lanes or paths, no tactile paving or DK opposite.
There is simply nothing here to suggest that this section of kerb falls into the DK restriction.


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Katerina236236
post Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 22:51
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Hello
Continue to my post at Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 20:24.
I have already appealed this PCN and the council rejected my appeal. (see attach). What do you think i should do. I've never been in this situatuon before, so don't know this process. Any help, please!
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 23:04
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post your challenge.

I would fight this all the way.


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Katerina236236
post Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 23:18
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Thank you so much for help.
my appeal:

Dear sir/madam,

I was puzzled why I had received PCN no xxxxx for parking adjacent to a dropped footway. I have reviewed the pictures taken by your CEO and I can see no such contravention. I understand that to enforce this contravention there needs to be a dropped footway for a pedestrian crossing, or vehicle or cycle access, and these clearly do not apply at this location. I look forward to your early cancellation of this PCN.

Something similar, I dont have saved appeal as it was done online.

But what is next step?

THank you.
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stamfordman
post Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 23:22
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That's the challenge I wrote and as expected it's just a boilerplate rejection that doesn't attempt to say why there is a contravention at that location.

As per PMB, you should go on with this - all you need do is wait for the notice to owner, to which you make a formal appeal, which we can tweak when the time comes.

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Katerina236236
post Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 23:37
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Yes, that was your challenge I used as my appeal, big thanks for that. So i'll wait for notice to owner. Will text you soon...
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