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TFL red route loading bay
acl
post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 14:09
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Hi

I would really appreciate the wisdom of the PePiPoo community. I recently stopped for about 5 mins in a loading bay on a red route. I was making a pre-arranged collection of sports equipment from the shop across the road so I feel I was using the bay legitimately.

As well as an argument in that direction, I also noticed the date of the alleged offence. Is this in breach of some time limit?

Thanks in advance
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post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 14:09
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stamfordman
post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 14:21
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Is car leased? That can explain the delay in reissuing PCN to you.

Or maybe you bought car shortly before?

Tell us more about the equipment. A shuttlecock won't do.

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acl
post Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 18:02
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Hi, thanks for the reply. Yes the car is leased. And the equipment conceivably could have been carried.
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DastardlyDick
post Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 09:49
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OP, the onus is on you to prove that you were entitled to use the Loading exemption.
How did you pre-order the goods? If online does the order show the date/time? If so, send a copy of that plus a copy of the receipt and a covering letter.
If it was by phone or in person at the shop, you may need to get something in writing from the shop to confirm your story.
Are you sure you were only there for 5 minutes? The photo's TfL sent are what proves the contravention in their opinion and cover the minimum "observation period" that adjudicators will accept.
However, you are entitled to up to 20 minutes if that's how long it took to transfer the goods from the shop to your car as the term "Loading" covers more than the act of placing goods in a vehicle. It can cover checking the goods are correct and paying for them. What it doesn't cover is wandering around the shop choosing the goods (that's shopping) or having a general natter with the shop keeper.

This post has been edited by DastardlyDick: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 - 11:48
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acl
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 11:18
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Thanks Dastardly Dick. My order was placed by phone and I didn't retain a receipt but I probably have the relevant transaction on my bank statement.

Your reply focuses on proving that I was loading legitimately - can I infer from that that you think the delay in issuing the notice is not a ground for appeal?
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Incandescent
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 12:01
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QUOTE (acl @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 11:18) *
Your reply focuses on proving that I was loading legitimately - can I infer from that that you think the delay in issuing the notice is not a ground for appeal?

The first PCN would have gone to the lease company if it is they who have the V5C. They then submit reps that they are a hire company and supply your name and address, at which point the first PCN is cancelled and a second one issued to you. So it does look as if it is all kosher. However your grounds of loading should be suffiient to get the PCN cancelled, but you may have to go to London Tribunals to get this result, as councils are so greedy for the cash they just bat off even solid grounds, knowing there are no penalties on them for doing so.

It's called "gaming the system", and to their advantage, of course, as most people cough up as they don't want to risk the full penalty

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 12:03
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stamfordman
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 12:19
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You haven't said what you were loading.

TFL will have video of what you were doing and will likely check it when you appeal, so best to be clear about this.
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acl
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 14:58
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Thanks guys, I'll let you know how I get on
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DastardlyDick
post Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 23:53
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QUOTE (acl @ Wed, 14 Nov 2018 - 11:18) *
Thanks Dastardly Dick. My order was placed by phone and I didn't retain a receipt but I probably have the relevant transaction on my bank statement.

Your reply focuses on proving that I was loading legitimately - can I infer from that that you think the delay in issuing the notice is not a ground for appeal?


No, the delay is legitimate, because you are not the Registered Keeper. The original PCN would have been sent to the Leasing Company, who then notify the Council that they are a leasing Co. and that you are the lessor - they have 28 days to do so. The council then re-issue the PCN to you, and zero the clock, so you get 14 days to pay at the reduced penalty etc.
A postal PCN is deemed 'served' 2 working days after the date of issue, and must be sent by 1st class mail.

If you google "Bosworth v Tower Hamlets" you'll see what Adjudicators may or may not accept as "Loading", if you go down to page 19.

If you want to check the CCTV footage, you can request a copy to be sent to you (free) or you can go to TfLs viewing centre in Southwark - the penalty will be held at the discount until you've had a chance to see the footage.

This post has been edited by DastardlyDick: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 00:01
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