UKPC in Birmingham PRrvate car park Options

[King312]

Hello,

RE: UK Parking Control Ltd (BPA member)

Any advice, my nephew used my car and parked up to see a friend in Birmingham City Centre. The signs were broken, others were difficult to read (see google images, attached) and his friend did not have the guest permit, parking was in an umarked carpark off road. Within minutes he had a private parking ticket on the windscreen, although the ticket shows an observation time of 5 minutes. He could not see the reduced price cost on the ticket and there is no POFA notes.



This is the main sign on Civic Close


The location is the small triangle area to the right, he agreed with another resident to share the space as he was just visiting


I was going to pay but got annoyed they added £1.50 to debit card payment then remembered the Independent article about UKPC, so checked this site. I attach copies of the ticket, I was planning on writing this on day 26:

Dear XXX UKPC

Re PCN number: XXX

I appeal and dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn, nor was there an agreed contract. I am not liable for the parking charge. Your main sign on the PCN is broken but nearby further signage within 100meters fails the test of reasonable nevermind 'large lettering' especially prominence of the parking charge, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. This is especially so as your sign on Civic Close (local) sign was utterly broken in pieces for some time (as pictures illustrate) and could not be read by any human as it is physically not present with the exception of your company logo!

The details on the windscreen PCN are also incorrect. You have:
-The wrong colour of the vehicle is shown
-The reduced rate amount is illegible, only the standard rate is visible, of which, this significantly exceeds nearby charges even the council charges.
-The first line of the PCN is not readable as it has been ripped presumably by attendant No:14095
-Typed writing is not in the white boxes provided and the watermarks obscures reading
-Location stated as Civic close Off Cambridge street is incorrect as it is unmarked area/road off Civic Close Off Cambrisge Street.
-You only have an observation time of 5 minutes to fetch the guest resident permit from the high rise flats by which time it was pointless trying to stop the ticket with locals explaining the character of the attendant to the driver not waste time and immediately protest to the attendant, in order to prevent the ticket being placed.
-There has been no loss of income or inconvenience to residents
-It is not easy/impossible to pre-obtain a visitor permit prior to parking

Should you fail to cancel this PCN, I require with your rejection letter, all images taken of this vehicle & the signs at the location that day. Do not withhold any images or data later relied on for POPLA/court.

Firms of your ilk were unanimously condemned in 2018 as operating an 'outrageous scam' (Hansard 2.2.18), particularly your firm as it fell foul of the law. The BPA & IPC were heavily criticised too; hardly surprising for an industry where so-called AOS members admit to letting victims 'futilely go through the motions' of appeal and say on camera 'we make it up sometimes' (BBC Watchdog).

I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner/committee, as well as complaining in writing to my MP and ensuring that they are appraised of the debate where Parliament agreed unanimously: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists...should not have to put up with this''.

Yours sincerely,

X

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[King312]

Close up of readable sign opposite and further away from where car was parked



Entry into unmarked road/parking area off Civic Close


Picture of the parking area


Picture of front of building, no signs


Picture of rear of building with sign


Another nearby sign

[SchoolRunMum]

By adding those words to the template, you've made it far too long for UKPC's online appeals page.

Be careful if tweaking wording on UKPC's appeal page because if it rejects it because the words to not fit, the drop-down menu defaults back to 'driver' at the top, and you only see it if you check! Make sure it says 'registered keeper' before you submit a shorter appeal on day 26.

Do wait till day 26 as that gets you almost halfway to timing them out to send a NTK.

[King312]

By adding those words to the template, you've made it far too long for UKPC's online appeals page.

Be careful if tweaking wording on UKPC's appeal page because if it rejects it because the words to not fit, the drop-down menu defaults back to 'driver' at the top, and you only see it if you check! Make sure it says 'registered keeper' before you submit a shorter appeal on day 26.

Do wait till day 26 as that gets you almost halfway to timing them out to send a NTK.

Thanks for the info, did not realise there was a word limit, would have fallen into the trap if you had not pointed it out. Thank you!




Not sure why the pictures have been deleted (UKPC?? as I added tags to tinypics), my nephew gained permission from the residents to take pictures of the car park/unmarked road and the main sign on the public road needs no permission. Here is the main sign (which is non-existent/broken):


Here is the small tiny area my nephew shared a parking space with a resident

[The Slithy Tove]

Some of your "rant" of an appeal is not really relevant, such as colour of car or the slight misalignment of the text (it is still readable). There's no need to point out what the notice should say, that's for them to work out, not for you to help them.

Also note that the sign is "forbidding". It says "No Unauthorised Parking". You cannot then contract to do something which is not allowed. That makes UKPC's claim completely without merit, as it's a matter of trespass which only the landowner can pursue.

You should also tell them to that you, as keeper, are not liable as the notice fails to conform to POFA.

And to rub salt into the wound, remind them that it unlawful for them to apply a charge for using a credit/debit card (not that you're going to pay them anyway).

[King312]

@TheSlithyTove, really good points, thank you

Totally forgot about the airline style debit card charges. Sorry about the rant, probably a continuation of telling my nephew off

[King312]

Just realised you need permission to put up private signs on public roads (like during elections/circus). I will report them to the council too for interfering with public lamposts

[King312]

lol, Birmingham City Council have responded to me about the pictures of the signs on Public lamp-posts around that area. They have updated the request for removal (or charge to UKPC for the council coffers as) as Status: Scheduled



Not sure if I should mention in my future first appeal their illegal signs have also been taken down as they had no permission from the City Council Landowners to operate on Public Land, or put up illegal signs on City Council Property. Or wait till POPLA given that I expect an automated rejection letter from UK Parking Control Ltd.



This post has been edited by King312: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 - 18:30

[SchoolRunMum]

Wait for POPLA. Just use the MSE template on day 26 first, it sends them a message that is stronger than it appears on face value.

Main thing is not to give away the driver.

[King312]

Hello, I should ask a MOD to change the title to "UKPC on Birmingham public land"

@TheSlithyTove Many thanks for your comments, gratefully enacted, thank you!
@SchoolRunMum I have not intention of giving my nephew's details and have already given him a good telling off but thanked him for the photos

I am still waiting for the NTK so I can complain immediately to the DVLA for releasing my data under the new GDPA rules. Then start a seperate ICO process with UKPC.



I have had a reply to my online appeal:


I am tempted to reply with:

Dear Appeals department of UKPC,

Thank you for acknowledging the content of my appeal and not conjecturing the legal status of public land. Having obtained photographs and contacted Birmingham City Council about signage on public lampposts and land, I would suggest an immediate cease and desist of your illegal business activities.

You also need to stop advertising your illegal debit card surcharges with immediate effect.

I write to you as Registered Keeper and confirm we have no contract. Your response is not in keeping with Protection of Freedom Act 2012. Please follow your standard operating procedures of rejection of appeals that confirm 'forbidding signage' that is also not fit for purpose, and issue a POPLA code.

Warmest Regards, Registered Keeper.

[Redivi]

I wouldn't reply

If they actually do cease and desist, you won't be able to complain to the DVLA about UKPC issuing tickets on public land

Placing signs and issuing tickets on public roads just outside their contracted area is a very common UKPC practice

[ostell]

And a letter to the BPA complaining about the unethical behaviour of UKPC that is against the BPA Code of Practise.

[King312]

And a letter to the BPA complaining about the unethical behaviour of UKPC that is against the BPA Code of Practise.

I have faith in POPLA but have no faith or trust in BPA, as it is a members only club of 'clampers' governed by themselves. I don't feel they would do anything even if it is against their rules as they value their subscription fees and self-preservation more than the principle of justice.

[cabbyman]

It's not necessarily for BPA. Many letters are written in PPC world because they show unreasonableness on the part of the PPC and the industry as a whole. It's one more in the stats debit column. You will likely get a long screed from BPA explaining why their member was correct and you were wrong. More evidence for use later if needs be.

This post has been edited by cabbyman: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 17:52

[Redivi]

And a letter to the BPA complaining about the unethical behaviour of UKPC that is against the BPA Code of Practise.

I have faith in POPLA but have no faith or trust in BPA, as it is a members only club of 'clampers' governed by themselves. I don't feel they would do anything even if it is against their rules as they value their subscription fees and self-preservation more than the principle of justice.

When clamping was banned, most of the former clampers turned to aggressive ticketing and joined the IPC

[King312]

It's not necessarily for BPA. Many letters are written in PPC world because they show unreasonableness on the part of the PPC and the industry as a whole. It's one more in the stats debit column. You will likely get a long screed from BPA explaining why their member was correct and you were wrong. More evidence for use later if needs be.

Thank you for the explanation. I am assuming PPC = Private Parking Charge. I am grateful for this forum and delving into the PPC world, so I will do what @ostell suggested and post the BPA response here, to be used in the future, possibly as a group/class response.


-----added: also I have reported UK Parking Control Ltd to trading standards for the debit (and credit) card surcharge

This post has been edited by King312: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 18:52

[Redivi]

PPC : Private Parking Company

[King312]

...
And to rub salt into the wound, remind them that it unlawful for them to apply a charge for using a credit/debit card (not that you're going to pay them anyway).

So I complained to trading standards via CAB, whom want me to forward evidence of the surcharge and I am forwarding copies of the ticket and telephone call I made whilst recording and got cut off when I told them it was being recorded. The email pointed out:

"
Your rights and obligations
The Payment Services Regulations 2017 came into effect in January this year and bans traders form charging a surcharge to customers who make payment by credit or debit card. If you have been charged extra for paying by card then you will be entitled to ask the trader to refund the additional charge.
...

Criminal offence
Any breach of the regulations above could be considered a breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 and a potential criminal offence.
"

[King312]

UKPC have not responded and as its been more than 14 days, I have contacted them via https://www.ukpcappeals.co.uk/ asking them to follow their standard rejection procedures and issue a POPLA code. The autoresponse page 'https://www.ukpcappeals.co.uk/thanks' said they will respond within 35 days.

[ostell]

Don't prod them.. They have 35 days to give the results of an appeal. If noting by then the appeal can be considered accepted. You write and tell them that on day 36. BPA CoP