URGENT Help with PCN 34 J being in a bus lane, PCN 34 J- Being in a bus lane (Camera Enforcement) Options

[erdbeertorte]

Hi,

I need some help and advice relating to a PCN received in the post from Croydon Borough Council on Fri 20th December 2011.
I've attached a scan of the PCN. They did not send any photos with the PCN.

Any advise on this PCN would be much appreciated.

Thank you.

Attached thumbnail(s)

 

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[Phil_Barker]

Here ya go.

I have received several camera PCN's through work in LB Croydon.

Have started the appeal process on them. See my thread Here where I have been given expert help by the members on this forum.


As far as my case(s) go, they have rejected the initial appeals.

That is the stage at the moment, and am in the process of 2nd appeal. They will probably reject the inital appeal. You need to mention the quoted text in my thread.


I must stress, that I am awaiting some further information though.

This post has been edited by Phil_Barker: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 - 17:09

[Neil B]

- but Phil, yours is a parking matter and much of the technical info in your thread doesn't apply here.

btw erdbeere. Your PCN is rubbish and legally invalid. It gives you too long in which to pay the full amount.

Is there any more of it? - more pages?

[erdbeertorte]

Thank you Neil B.
No, there are no more pages.
The PCN came printed on both sides of a single A4 paper.
Please could you advise on what I need to do now in order to contest this PCN.
Thanks once again!

[Neil B]

Well, the flaw is so serious that, legally speaking, you should win. That said, we get the odd random decision by Adjudicators. I'd say you are 95% safe.
If you could support this with some relevant real-life circumstance then all the better, e.g. signage issues?

We see so many people worry about the 'discount' and the 14 days -- yet very, very few cases are ever resolved while discount is in play.
I say this because I'm thinking what I'd do if it were mine. That is, to actually wait for the next document, the Enforcement Notice.
That's the equivalent of a Notice to Owner if it were a parking PCN. In response to that you would make formal representations and would be fighting for the full penalty amount of £130.
The reason I would take that particular course is >

a) the strength of your case legally already, and

b) it may give you more ammo -- as I'll explain in a minute.

------
I'll link the relevant legislation re the flaw in a while.

i'll also explain my reason in detail.

[Neil B]

Ok the PCN flaw first.

LLA Act 1996 is noted at the top and is the correct legislation.

This is section 4 of that Act > (my bold, etc.)

(3)A penalty charge notice under this Part of this Act must state—

(a)the grounds on which the council believe that the penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle;
(b)the amount of the penalty charge which is payable;
©that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice;
(d)that if the penalty charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of the notice, the amount of the penalty charge will be reduced by the specified proportion;
(e)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of the 28 day period, an enforcement notice may be served by the council on the person appearing to them to be the owner of the vehicle;


Concentrate on © first. Your PCN says 28 days beginning date of service of the Notice -- entirely different and a longer period.

So why does it matter? >>

It simply doesn't comply with what the law prescribes and is therefore unlawful and may not be enforced (same as a £5 note without a pic of the Queen if you like).

Given the time of year and the date of the PCN the difference in time is considerable. Documents are legally considered to have been served two working days after posting, so, for yours, today 3rd January.
So they have given you until 30th January to pay when in fact, legally, you only have until 25th January.

Then >>

Look at the statement on the back concerning issue of the next document - the EN. they say ''after 28 days'' -- but which period of 28 days is that then? They certainly don't follow the wording of (e) above in the Act and since they've described the 28 day period wrongly, earlier, we can only guess.

Legally they can issue the EN anytime after 25th January.
Soooo -- the reason I was suggesting waiting is that if they issued an EN before 31st January they would be proving the point about the first flaw I mentioned. It would strengthen your already strong case.

---------

Btw - we've beaten several Councils on similar or the same flaw. Notably, a long running saga with Barnet back in 2008/9 and Newham at the same time. There were others I can't recall without looking.
All of those PCNs have since been amended following our wins at adjudication. There will be cases you will be able to refer to at later stages.

[erdbeertorte]

Hi Neil B,

Thanks for the info and for all your help so far.

So, just to clarify when I am suppose to write to Croydon Council to contest the PCN?

Also, the PCN it states the only grounds for contesting it are:
1) Recipient was not the owner
2) The vehicle was taken without my consent
3) The contravention did not occur
4) The Penalty Charge exceed relevant amount
5) The relevant order is invalid
6) The vehicle was on hire

So, which of the six grounds of appeal will I be using?

To be honest, I don’t remember deviating into the bus lane on the day in question. The PCN says “alleged traffic contravention”, and it also didn’t attach any pictures. Do you think it is worthwhile requesting for pictures to be sent to me?
Btw, here is a goggle map view of Park Lane that another member Dewpoint posted:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...st=#entry608430

I have also attached a document I found on Croydon Council’s website regarding when they cancel PCN’s.

Thanks once again for all your help so far!

Attached File(s)

 Croydon.PCN_Cancellation.pdf ( 18.94K ) Number of downloads: 160

 

[Neil B]

Sit tight, I'll get back to you as soon as I have time.