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Driving without Due Care Attention - Disqualification
asrman
post Mon, 21 Nov 2016 - 23:39
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Hi all,

Looking for some outside opinion on my case which is as follows:

4 April 2016 was going a bit quicker than normal on a 40 mph dual carriageway. I would say my speed was probably between 60mph and 70mph so clearly well over the limit. I undertook a car and then merged back into the over taking lane and at that point noticed that the white BMW behind me who had been trying to keep up for a short while turned on his blue police lights and I pulled over. I offered no explanations for the my driving and of course admitted the offence in full seeing as though he was right behind me and saw everything. The police officer advised that the offence would not be dealt with by way of fixed penalty but I would receive a letter outlining my options which may include compulsory attendance at court. I said ok and I went on my way.

I did not receive anything in the post in the next two weeks and moved address permanently. Fast forward to September 2016 and I had forgotten all about it but returned to my old address to collect the post and discovered two letters. Now the first letter which was dated 20 April (or thereabouts I no longer have the letter which I will explain below), was a police letter and stated the offence which occurred on 4 April and the offence is driving without due care attention, and that I have a few options. Those options being speed awareness course or 3 points and £60.00 fine. The letter clearly stated that a reply was required within 28 days or else the letter would no longer be valid. Of course, due to the fact I had changed address but not updated my DVLA address details I did not receive notice of this letter so was unable to reply within that time period. Rang the police and they confirmed the same that the letter no longer applies.

Now the second letter which I opened at my old address in September 2016 was a court summons for 11 November, for the exact same offence, and I presume they decided to summons me to court because I had not replied to the police letter back in April 2016. The offence was the same, same date and I decided to plead guilty by post. The police mans statement was attached and he stated that I was travelling in excess of 80mph in a 40mph which I think is slightly exaggerated but none the less I accepted the statement and explained in the mitigation section that the reason why I did not reply earlier was because of a change of address and had I received the letter I would have accepted the speed awareness course. Sent the letter off together with the initial letter dated April 2016 as evidence. I also wrote my new address clearly in the court summons letter so that any replies would be received by me at my current address.

Now fast forward again today I returned to my old address to receive any post and opened a court letter dated 11 November 2016. First thoughts are why have they sent it to the wrong address when I have already told them I am no longer living there when I pleaded guilty by post. Now this letter states that the court hearing had to be adjourned because the seriousness of the offence now means that the court are considering disqualifying me from driving and I must attend on 6 December or else I will be disqualified or arrested! Now this seems like a drastic change from the original fine which was speed awareness or 3 points and £60.00 for the exact same offence the only thing being that I have failed to reply on time to these correspondence because of a change of address.

I can only think that they have not actually received my guilty by post letter or else they would have sent this to the correct address or alternatively the court have decided that because I accepted the policemans statement where he says I was travelling 80mph in a 40mph zone this warrants consideration of a ban. I think it seems a bit unfair considering that had I not moved address then I would have been booked onto a speed awareness course back in April but because of this change of address im now looking at the possibility of being disqualified.

One last things, the police officer at the time of the offence stated that I had 9 points on my license which I knew was not correct because the last points I received were back in 2012 when I got 6 points from a mobile speed camera. This is shown on my paper counter part license and also confirmed when checked online on GOV.org website I currently have zero points. So im not sure if the court is mixed up slightly with how many points I actually have.

Would much appreciate your views on this matter.
Cheers
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post Mon, 21 Nov 2016 - 23:39
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Jlc
post Tue, 6 Dec 2016 - 13:08
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so the offences were more than 3 years apart?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 6 Dec 2016 - 13:27
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 6 Dec 2016 - 14:08) *
so the offences were more than 4 years apart?

FTFY


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Jlc
post Tue, 6 Dec 2016 - 13:35
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 6 Dec 2016 - 13:27) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 6 Dec 2016 - 14:08) *
so the offences were more than 4 years apart?

FTFY

I was referring to the totting period - but had missed the OP had confirmed it was outwith already. But, yes, also outside the 4 years too.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 - 13:36


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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MFM
post Wed, 7 Dec 2016 - 10:11
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So since there is no law making it illegal to undertake, why has he been charged with due care and not just speeding alone?
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samthecat
post Wed, 7 Dec 2016 - 10:19
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QUOTE (MFM @ Wed, 7 Dec 2016 - 10:11) *
So since there is no law making it illegal to undertake, why has he been charged with due care and not just speeding alone?


Have a read of: http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road_tr...ad_driving/#a30

In a nutshell this paragraph taken from the link explains why:

"There are decided cases that provide some guidance as to the driving that courts will regard as careless or inconsiderate and the following examples are typical of what we are likely to regard as careless driving:

overtaking on the inside;
driving inappropriately close to another vehicle;
inadvertently driving through a red light;
emerging from a side road into the path of another vehicle;
tuning a car radio; when the driver was avoidably distracted by this action;
using a hand-held mobile phone or other hand-held electronic equipment when the driver was avoidably distracted by that use (note that this is an offence itself under Regulation 110 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2003). If this is the only relevant aspect of the case it is more appropriate to use the specific offence;
selecting and lighting a cigarette or similar when the driver was avoidably distracted by that use."


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Jlc
post Wed, 7 Dec 2016 - 10:19
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QUOTE (MFM @ Wed, 7 Dec 2016 - 10:11) *
So since there is no law making it illegal to undertake, why has he been charged with due care and not just speeding alone?

It's contextual - the undertake may not be the action of a careful and competent driver.

Careless can be a bit of 'catch all' and excessive speed aggravates.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 - 10:20


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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sgtdixie
post Wed, 7 Dec 2016 - 10:32
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Careless is normally used where there are multiple elements to an offence. This clearly fits the criteria by the OP's own account.
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