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dave-o
Posted on: Wed, 8 Nov 2023 - 15:35


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QUOTE (John U.K. @ Wed, 8 Nov 2023 - 15:32) *
What is the status of the PCN on the Council website?


I will ask him to check.

I'd still love to hear any word on maximum time allowed to register a OfR.

*EDIT*

The council portal says:
"This offence is on hold pending a review of your recent challenge".

Which is weird, as his informal appeal was refused, and he has never been able to make a formal appeal as no NTO was received.
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #1797892 · Replies: 13 · Views: 635

dave-o
Posted on: Wed, 8 Nov 2023 - 15:30


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QUOTE (Schofeldt @ Wed, 8 Nov 2023 - 15:29) *
Good idea. What is the current price?


Was this posted in reply to the wrong thread?
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #1797889 · Replies: 13 · Views: 635

dave-o
Posted on: Wed, 8 Nov 2023 - 15:18


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Hi chaps

I will repost this on FTLA if i get no response here, but seeing as the thread is here, i may as well have a try?



The family member has not received an OfR yet. They have been calling the TEC every week for the past month, and have been advised that the OfR has not yet been authorised. On the most recent call, the lady at TEC told him that as they have a limit of 33 days to authorise it, it is probably too late for them to do so now. Is this the case?

As they are going abroad for a few weeks, this would be good. As a backup he is going to get the witness statement done anyway, and have someone let me know if anything arrives from them while he's away. It seems possible they may have chosen not to enforce is as the recipient is disabled and was displaying a badge.
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #1797885 · Replies: 13 · Views: 635

dave-o
Posted on: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 - 09:28


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Thank you, I had forgotten about the Order for Recovery stage. We will sit tight and wait for this.
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #1793699 · Replies: 13 · Views: 635

dave-o
Posted on: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 - 08:26


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This is for a family member.

The timeline:

- PCN was issued in June
- Informal reps were submitted
- Informal reps were rejected (of course)
- Nothing was received until a Charge Certificate dated 11/09. He swears a NTO was never received

I would very much value members' opinions on the appeal grounds, however the first task is to get he CC set back to NTO stage, I believe. The CC doesn't offer any advice other than to pay, and I am a bit rusty on the process, so I would appreciate any advice on how to do this. I will attach the CC below.

Many thanks





He assures me that this is everything that was sent with the CC.
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #1793693 · Replies: 13 · Views: 635

dave-o
Posted on: Wed, 18 Jan 2023 - 14:28


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I am happy to tough it out at a risk of ~£200. In fact I have toughed ECP out before and it hasn't gone to court (no surprises).

I am certainly going to do their pointless appeal and then the POPLA appeal, during which time I will demand a copy of the contract.

Thanks so far, i will post back when the initial Mickey Mouse appeal is refused.
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1758928 · Replies: 15 · Views: 876

dave-o
Posted on: Mon, 16 Jan 2023 - 14:10


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QUOTE (Scientist & Saint @ Sun, 15 Jan 2023 - 16:17) *
Just curious - if it's "abandoned" then Halfords must have closed down as well as Wickes, so there's nothing there to justify a visit.


Wickes and Halfords are indeed closed down. It's reasonably close to town though so it's possible people may use it to pop into one of the local shops briefly. In my experience though this isn't common as there are rarely more than a few cars there in the times i have driven past.
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1758423 · Replies: 15 · Views: 876

dave-o
Posted on: Sat, 14 Jan 2023 - 15:18


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Sorry, the dates are:

Date of event: 24/12/2022

Date issued: 02/01/2023

Thanks
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1758037 · Replies: 15 · Views: 876

dave-o
Posted on: Sat, 14 Jan 2023 - 15:11


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The dates from the top section are:

Date of event: 21/11/2022 10:50

Date issued: 21/12/2022 12:10

Thanks
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1758033 · Replies: 10 · Views: 470

dave-o
Posted on: Tue, 10 Jan 2023 - 17:44


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Fair point, thank you
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1757190 · Replies: 10 · Views: 470

dave-o
Posted on: Tue, 10 Jan 2023 - 17:43


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QUOTE (Redx @ Tue, 10 Jan 2023 - 16:50) *
3) as with your other post, you redacted the dates, so no advice about that, yet.! ( dates are important in these cases.) you need to stop redacting the dates



Do you mean the date in the top section, with the PCN number etc.? i.e. date of issue? I don't think I redacted the other dates, i.e. date of "contravention", as these are visible.
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1757187 · Replies: 15 · Views: 876

dave-o
Posted on: Tue, 10 Jan 2023 - 16:46


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QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 10 Jan 2023 - 16:31) *
It's not unheard of for PCN's to 'disappear' from windscreens. (The chance to pay the reduced amount is lost - go figure…)


Unless the PPC agent themselves removed it then this is not the case, as their own pictures show the car with no invoice attached.

In which case, the lack of a reduced timescale being offered is a more serious omission.
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1757173 · Replies: 10 · Views: 470

dave-o
Posted on: Tue, 10 Jan 2023 - 16:43


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This is a postal invoice from ECP for being parked for 12 minutes in an abandoned car park. To be clear, this is an industrial estate where all the businesses closed down over 6 months ago.





I would appreciate comments on:

1) Is the abandoned nature of the car park of any use at all? I guess this would depend on the contract with the landowner

2) Is the fact that it was only 12 minutes pertinent? It could have taken a very slow reader and walker 12 minutes to locate the sign and read it

3) Any wording points?

Thanks
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1757171 · Replies: 15 · Views: 876

dave-o
Posted on: Tue, 10 Jan 2023 - 15:57


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Just to say this appeal was not successful, and I paid it. Not a great surprise to be honest. Thank you to those that offered advice though.
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #1757162 · Replies: 33 · Views: 2,985

dave-o
Posted on: Tue, 10 Jan 2023 - 15:51


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Hi

Sorry for the flurry of recent tickets/invoices.

This is from a place of work. The driver was an employee at the time, with permission to park in the car park in question. This was not by means of a physical permit, but by being on a database of permitted drivers.

On this occasion is is possible that the driver parked in a location that was not an official parking place, but that staff members always park in and this has been fine. The PPC has perhaps seen an opportunity to make some money and may have ticketed all these cars.





There are two particular points that I would appreciate opinions on:

1) They state "...a PCN was issued and affixed to the vehicle...". No invoice was attached to the vehicle, which can be seen from their own photos, which I screenshotted from their website. Is this a killer point?

2) Any other points of wording please?

Many thanks!
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1757159 · Replies: 10 · Views: 470

dave-o
Posted on: Wed, 2 Nov 2022 - 09:29


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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Mon, 31 Oct 2022 - 16:33) *
Sorry OP, missed the penultimate post.

The duty of an Enforcement Authority is set out here:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/34...gulation/5/made

The NOR must state:
Rejection of representations against notice to owner
6.—(1) Where representations are made under regulation 4 and the enforcement authority serves a notice of rejection under regulation 5(2)(b), that notice shall—
(a)state that a charge certificate may be served unless before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of the notice of rejection—
(i)the penalty charge is paid; or
(ii)the person on whom the notice is served appeals to an adjudicator against the penalty charge;
(b)indicate the nature of an adjudicator’s power to award costs; and
©describe in general terms the form and manner in which an appeal to an adjudicator must be made.


Their NOR states (a), ....and that's it.

It purports to discharge its duty under (b) and (© by referring you to a third-party website. IMO, this is not permitted.

IF it's accepted that this website applies, then it MUST apply in its entirety.

The website states:
You have 28 days to submit an appeal after receiving an NoR letter......oh really!

So, not only does this contradict the NOR's 'you should appeal before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the delivery of this NOR', it's incomplete. What a NOR is required to describe is c)..in general terms the form and manner in which an appeal to an adjudicator must be made.'

And this is given here in the regs:
Appeals to an adjudicator in relation to decisions under regulation 5
7.—(1) Where an authority serves a notice of rejection under regulation 5(2)(b) in relation to representations made under regulation 4, the person who made those representations may appeal to an adjudicator against the authority’s decision—
(a)before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of the notice of rejection; or
(b)within such longer period as an adjudicator may allow.



And as for:
a notice of rejection under regulation 5(2)(b), that notice shall—

(b)indicate the nature of an adjudicator’s power to award costs;


Costs
13.—(1) The adjudicator shall not normally make an order awarding costs and expenses, but may, subject to subparagraph (2) make such an order—
(a)against a party (including an appellant who has withdrawn his appeal or an enforcement authority which has consented to an appeal being allowed) if he is of the opinion that that party has acted frivolously or vexatiously or that his conduct in making, pursuing or resisting an appeal was wholly unreasonable; or
(b)against an enforcement authority where he considers that the disputed decision was wholly unreasonable.
(2) An order shall not be made under subparagraph (1) against a party unless that party has been given an opportunity of making representations against the making of the order.
(3) An order under subparagraph (1) shall require the party against whom it is made to pay to the other party a specified sum in respect of the costs and expenses incurred by that other party in connection with the proceedings.

The NOR is grossly deficient IMO:
1. It abrogates the authority's duty to include all mandatory info in the NOR by referring the recipient to a third party website (OP, go to it and see what you make of it), and
2. Even if one refers to it, it contradicts the NOR as regards a mandatory element and omits/obfuscates the info regarding 'costs' and the adjudicator's power to allow extra time to submit an appeal.

..but I'm still unclear as to whether the OP has posted the whole NOR because I cannot see a signature block.


Thank you, this is much appreciated.
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #1744596 · Replies: 33 · Views: 2,985

dave-o
Posted on: Mon, 31 Oct 2022 - 14:44


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I have now received the evidence pack. There is a lot of it, although no specific rebuttal, I believe. They have just attached all of the documentation, maps and PPO.

What is the recommended format in which to post this? How obscured is it recommended to be?

Also am i best to request a telephone hearing?

Thanks
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #1744337 · Replies: 33 · Views: 2,985

dave-o
Posted on: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 - 08:20


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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sat, 1 Oct 2022 - 09:55) *
Perhaps the - to use the word loved by adjudicators - cumulative effect of numerous minor PIs might swing the balance, there's at least another candidate in the NOR.


I would appreciate your input on the potential PI candidate in the NOR.
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #1740599 · Replies: 33 · Views: 2,985

dave-o
Posted on: Thu, 6 Oct 2022 - 08:17


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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 1 Oct 2022 - 01:07) *
Show us the representations that you sent please.


Sorry for the delay, here are the reps. To be honest I was not at all sure if i understood the "reg 3(2)(b)(ii) argument" despite Incandescent's explanation. I spent some time googling the TMA and trying to locate this passage, but everything to do with reg. 9 that had a 3 (2) either didn't have a (b) or didn't have a (b)(ii). So hopefully what i put isn't too far off.

QUOTE
I am appealing the NTO on two grounds:
- Procedural impropriety due to the PCN not conforming to legislation
- Procedural impropriety due to the location stated on the PCN not conforming to the relevant Parking Places Order

1) PCN wording
The PCN does not conform to the requirements of the Traffic Management Act 2004, under which it was issued. Specifically, regulation 3(2)(b)(ii) requires that the PCN informs the PCN recipient that if he submits representations, that these will be considered, but that if a Notice to Owner is received, then the recipient must respond to the Notice to Owner. This is potentially prejudicial as it is possible that a PCN recipient may submit reps against the PCN, receive an NtO without having got a response to those reps, and ignore the PCN, thinking that reps had already been submitted.

2) The location stated on the PCN is "Deben Parking Place". However the location name as stated on the Parking Places Order that allows parking enforcement here is "Station Road Cark Park, Woodbridge". As the River Deben is close to many towns and villages in Suffolk, the location stated is a) not compliant with the PPO and b) not specific enough to allow someone to consider the ticket in context

As such, the contravention as stated did not take place and the PCN and subsequent NTO are not valid. I am entirely prepared to take my appeal to the independent adjudication service if necessary.


I know I'm in for the full amount now and am fine with that. Look forward to any juice from the NOR. Thanks
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #1739554 · Replies: 33 · Views: 2,985

dave-o
Posted on: Thu, 29 Sep 2022 - 10:13


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Hi all

Here is the NOR:








Any further ammo here please?

I am probably wrong, but I really feel the location should be "Deben Station Road" as per the PPO. The only similarity between the PCN and the PPO location is "Deben". The river Deben flows through many towns and villages in Suffolk, so there must be hundreds of places that include "Deben" in the PPO location.
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #1738406 · Replies: 33 · Views: 2,985

dave-o
Posted on: Thu, 8 Sep 2022 - 11:23


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Would you mind explaining in layman's terms what the "reg 3(2)(b)(ii) argument" is please? Your help is very much appreciated.

Also, i am only working on my own logic, but even if a sign saying "Deben" means that "Deben Parking Place" is an accurate description of the location, surely this would still have to be stated in the PPO?
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #1734542 · Replies: 33 · Views: 2,985

dave-o
Posted on: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 - 13:09


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Actually, sorry for the misunderstanding, you are quite right, I did not make informal reps. I think I'm so used to doing so that I just assumed that I had.

I will amend my post.
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #1734149 · Replies: 33 · Views: 2,985

dave-o
Posted on: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 - 09:20


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Thank you for locating the order.

I have just received the NTO, here it is:






So far I believe we have:

- Incorrect location on PCN
- Incorrect location on NTO
- Potential NTO wording flaw (as per StamfordMan, May 3rd ("I think there is a will/may flaw in the service of the NTO in the wording.))

I'm not sure if this is what SM is referring to as per above, but although I understand they have 6 months to serve a NTO, it doesn't state this anywhere on the PCN. As it was, they took 4 months.
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #1734112 · Replies: 33 · Views: 2,985

dave-o
Posted on: Wed, 11 May 2022 - 13:56


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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 11 May 2022 - 14:51) *
QUOTE (dave-o @ Wed, 11 May 2022 - 14:02) *
Thanks, just to be clear, did you mean to say you will ask for it, or that i should ask for it?

I have asked for the order, I will post it on here when I get it.

I think wrong location is by far the strongest point. Do you have the V5C and is the address correct?

For tactical reasons I'm going to make the unusual suggestion not to respond to the PCN at all and wait for the NTO instead.



I do have the V5C and the address is correct.

I think I understand your reasons for the tactical delay.

Thanks for your help.
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #1711279 · Replies: 33 · Views: 2,985

dave-o
Posted on: Wed, 11 May 2022 - 13:02


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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 10 May 2022 - 16:34) *
Wrong location, the car was parked in Station Road Car Park, not "Deben Parking Place", wherever that may be. I'll ask for the parking places order.


Thanks, just to be clear, did you mean to say you will ask for it, or that i should ask for it?

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 10 May 2022 - 16:34) *
Are you the registered keeper and were you the driver at the time?


Both

QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 3 May 2022 - 12:31) *
I think there is a will/may flaw in the service of the NTO in the wording.

Reinstate all the times - why was the PCN served?


Time: 14:02

Observed from: 14:01 to 14:02

The PCN states it was served due to "Parked without payment of the parking charge", or is this not what you mean?

Thanks
  Forum: Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalis... · Post Preview: #1711256 · Replies: 33 · Views: 2,985

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