Defending a court claim form received - What happens next?, Private Parking tickets |
Defending a court claim form received - What happens next?, Private Parking tickets |
Wed, 31 Jul 2019 - 19:32
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 12 Joined: 31 Jul 2019 Member No.: 105,038 |
Evening all,
I've received a court claim form from VCS, related to parking on 'private land'. I fully intend to challenge it, and time is of the essence because I only have 7 days of the 14 remaining to acknowledge the claim (and defend it) and I am going on Holiday on Sunday. My issue is I do not want to rush writing up my defence here, but then I wondered, would the defence be a shortened summary of what I would intend my full defence to be if/when it goes to a court hearing? Or does the court receive the defence, review it and make a judgement on whether my defence is 'worthy' of a court hearing? Or do they just pass the defence info on to the claimant (VCS) and it's up to VCS as to whether they drop it or request a court hearing? I imagine it is the latter, but wanted to clarify it and understand how much importance is placed on the defence now, or will I in effect have a proper chance to draft a defence up for the court date as / when that occurs? I would rather avoid going to court so I guess I can see how a strong defence may deter that happening but still. Also, how long would I expect it to take for a court date to be confirmed if/when the claimant decides they will take it to a hearing? Are we talking a matter of days / weeks? (Just bearing in mind the fact I will be away for two weeks). Very grateful for input. M |
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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 - 19:32
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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 - 19:43
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
You acknowledge the claim online using the details and password on the form. Noting in the defence, nothing. This gives you 33 days from date of issue to get your defence to the court.
The court don't make a judgement on the quality or otherwise of your defence, the process just ploughs on regardless We're talking months before a hearing. You must put everything into your defence now, even if just a mention. You are not allowed to add extra defence points without paying £255. You can send your defence to the court as an attachment to email. Word processor, add your signature, save as PDF and send. There is a format for a defence, which you will find online. You myst ensure it is signed. Before the hearing, usually 14 days, you submit your witness statement and evidence to the court VCS will proceed to court but it's not like you see on TV. It's a room with 3 desks, and the bigger and higher desk us the judge. This post has been edited by ostell: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 - 19:47 |
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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 - 20:04
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 12 Joined: 31 Jul 2019 Member No.: 105,038 |
Thanks Ostell.
Are you sure about 33 days? I'm seeing 28 days on this claim form. Bit of a tricky one in terms of timing really. Claim Issue date is 22 July. I go away for 2 week on Sunday the 4th August, returning on 18th August. If the 28 days thing is right I'd have the day after I return to submit the defence? I don't really want to work on that whilst I'm away so will try and make it as good as poss and submit before Sunday me-thinks. So the witness statement I'd be bringing to court couldn't contain any other defence points or even elaborate further on what was submitted in my defence? |
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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 - 20:27
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
Read the form completely. You have 28 days from date of service, and date of service is 5 days from date of issue
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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 - 20:28
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,053 Joined: 20 May 2013 Member No.: 62,052 |
At its heart, a defence is list of admit/deny/not-in-my-knowledge responses to every point in their claim. Anything you don't challenge, you may be deemed to have accepted. For each denied point, you assert your "alternative truth" if relevant - for example: "it is denied that the defendant was the keeper; the defendant sold the vehicle two weeks before the incident".
Later, your witness statement "tells your story" and includes any evidence, such as photos of signs. Then either a few days before the hearing you can submit a Skeleton Argument (or just present it orally on the day) which is a series of arguments explaining how your evidence and witness statement(s), plus law and case law, confirm the validity of your defence points. |
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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 - 20:39
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
You send the witness statement to the court 14 days before the hearing. This is your tale of what happened . Extra defence points are not supposed to be in there but with careful wording it has been done.
Why rush your defence? If you now know you have sufficient time to get it to the court in time then write it now but don't send it until you get back. Gives you time to mull it over and refine. You could post it on here for critique, suitably redacted. |
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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 - 21:00
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 12 Joined: 31 Jul 2019 Member No.: 105,038 |
Thanks all.
I have clocked the 5 days from issue thing now - Good to know. In that case I will acknowledge and draft a defence - I will post it up for critique tomorrow. |
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Sat, 3 Aug 2019 - 18:08
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 12 Joined: 31 Jul 2019 Member No.: 105,038 |
I have a couple of questions which are 'out of curiosity' shall we say, about defending a court claim.
Lets say an individual was to claim they had no knowledge of the so called 'parking invoice' as they didn't receive any letters (until the claim popped through the door) but they do vaguely recall a ticket being placed on their windscreen but choosing to remove it and bin it. Has anyone heard of a scenario where the claimant had cctv footage of such an act? IE a driver removing a ticket from the window, which was presented in order to challenge a defendants claim that they had no knowledge of the ticket? Also, if a defence is to be specifically focused on lack of signage and therefore knowledge of a 'contract' being entered into, is there any benefit to keeping up the 'charade' of referring to 'the driver' ie. not acknowledging one way or the other who the driver was? Grateful for your thoughts. |
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Sat, 3 Aug 2019 - 18:50
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
The keeper, after getting the NTK, goes to the site of the alleged breach in order to check signs etc
Don't lie to the court, it could have dire consequences There will not be CCTV |
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Sat, 3 Aug 2019 - 19:49
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Also, if a defence is to be specifically focused on lack of signage and therefore knowledge of a 'contract' being entered into, is there any benefit to keeping up the 'charade' of referring to 'the driver' ie. not acknowledging one way or the other who the driver was? If the claim form alleges that the defendant was the driver then that has to be denied or admitted. If it’s ignored then the rules say it is admitted. The statement of truth means it can’t be denied if that’s not true. This post has been edited by southpaw82: Sat, 3 Aug 2019 - 19:50 -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Sat, 3 Aug 2019 - 20:14
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,825 Joined: 16 Nov 2008 Member No.: 24,123 |
Also, if a defence is to be specifically focused on lack of signage and therefore knowledge of a 'contract' being entered into, is there any benefit to keeping up the 'charade' of referring to 'the driver' ie. not acknowledging one way or the other who the driver was? If the claim form alleges that the defendant was the driver then that has to be denied or admitted. If it’s ignored then the rules say it is admitted. The statement of truth means it can’t be denied if that’s not true. Content of defence 16.5 (1) In his defence, the defendant must state – (a) which of the allegations in the particulars of claim he denies; (b) which allegations he is unable to admit or deny, but which he requires the claimant to prove; and © which allegations he admits. (2) Where the defendant denies an allegation – (a) he must state his reasons for doing so; and (b) if he intends to put forward a different version of events from that given by the claimant, he must state his own version. (3) A defendant who – (a) fails to deal with an allegation; but (b) has set out in his defence the nature of his case in relation to the issue to which that allegation is relevant, shall be taken to require that allegation to be proved. |
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Sat, 3 Aug 2019 - 20:22
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Content of defence 16.5 (1) In his defence, the defendant must state – (a) which of the allegations in the particulars of claim he denies; (b) which allegations he is unable to admit or deny, but which he requires the claimant to prove; and © which allegations he admits. (2) Where the defendant denies an allegation – (a) he must state his reasons for doing so; and (b) if he intends to put forward a different version of events from that given by the claimant, he must state his own version. (3) A defendant who – (a) fails to deal with an allegation; but (b) has set out in his defence the nature of his case in relation to the issue to which that allegation is relevant, shall be taken to require that allegation to be proved. If the parking incident happened so long ago that the defendant doesn’t know who was driving or there are other reasons why they might not know who was driving then they can use the unable to admit or deny angle. However (and which is the point if a “charade” is being maintained) where they do know who was driving they cannot say that they don’t. This post has been edited by southpaw82: Sat, 3 Aug 2019 - 20:32 -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Sat, 3 Aug 2019 - 20:30
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 12 Joined: 31 Jul 2019 Member No.: 105,038 |
Cool. Thanks.
The person who's defence I'm helping with will therefore concede that they were the driver and do recall parking at said place. |
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Sat, 3 Aug 2019 - 20:32
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Cool. Thanks. The person who's defence I'm helping with will therefore concede that they were the driver and do recall parking at said place. Does the claim allege that they were the driver (either solely or some formulation such as “driver and/or registered keeper”)? -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Sat, 3 Aug 2019 - 21:34
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 12 Joined: 31 Jul 2019 Member No.: 105,038 |
Cool. Thanks. The person who's defence I'm helping with will therefore concede that they were the driver and do recall parking at said place. Does the claim allege that they were the driver (either solely or some formulation such as “driver and/or registered keeper”)? It refers to the defendant's vehicle and later says 'at all material times the defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver'. |
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Sat, 3 Aug 2019 - 21:42
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
If the allegation isn’t dealt with it’s admitted. If he was the driver he may as well admit it.
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Sat, 3 Aug 2019 - 22:29
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 12 Joined: 31 Jul 2019 Member No.: 105,038 |
I thought as much - I'm sure he will admit it.
Just on another matter, if I was considering querying whether V C S have proper contractual authority to pursue drivers/ keepers for Parking charges, would it be acceptable to ask for that within a defence? I think I've seen on another thread that a person wrote out directly to the parking company /solicitor about this prior to submitting their defence. Would that be the way to go? Is it even a worthy argument to make or will it look like a shot in the dark? I tried the Land Registry for the case I've referred to, the place the car was parked was a unit of an Industrial Estate. I tried to see who was the owner of the unit and/or estate itself but it costs £3. The particulars of claim I'm looking at from V C S doesn't even expressly say what their role is ie. or whether they have authority / a contract with the landowner. It simply refers to a 'breach of contract for breaching t&c's set on private land'. Is there some legal terms/ caselaw one could quote on this sort of thing? I believe that there would be but my searches so far haven't pinpointed anything. I wonder if this sort of thing could even lead to a case being thrown out? This post has been edited by mendop6: Sat, 3 Aug 2019 - 22:31 |
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Sat, 3 Aug 2019 - 22:32
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
You don’t ask for anything in a defence. You can write to them with the enquiry and see if they answer. If they don’t, you can say something like “the Defendant has no knowledge of the Claimant’s standing to pursue this matter via litigation, as it is not the owner or occupier of the land in question, and requires the Claimant to prove that it has sufficient standing.”
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Sat, 3 Aug 2019 - 23:31
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 12 Joined: 31 Jul 2019 Member No.: 105,038 |
You don’t ask for anything in a defence. You can write to them with the enquiry and see if they answer. If they don’t, you can say something like “the Defendant has no knowledge of the Claimant’s standing to pursue this matter via litigation, as it is not the owner or occupier of the land in question, and requires the Claimant to prove that it has sufficient standing.” Thanks Southpaw. Good to know. Do you (or anyone else) know of how successful / common such a technicality bears fruit? I will have another search - I definitely saw something about this on the Parking Cowboys site in that the parking company had no standing / basis to claim the cost so it was thrown out! Edit: I found a transcript of the Ibottson case. Anyone know of any similar cases where the parking operator couldn't prove their right to issue proceedings when they are accredited by the IPC instead of the BPA? The wording on their code of practice seems vague but does not explicitly mention 'right to issue legal proceedings' as the judge referred to in the Ibotson case. This post has been edited by mendop6: Sun, 4 Aug 2019 - 10:09 |
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