Urgent - Merseyflow Runcorn Bridge Options

[peter p]

Another problem but again its not me personally, doing this for a friend.

Apparently his car has been over the new Runcorn bridge from we can gather back in December 2018, at the time he hadn't long moved house and it looks like the letters may have gone to his old address as these are the first two he has received this morning. Seems like its at the bailiff stage, I don't think he set up a postal forwarding address at the time either.






He can't remember driving over the bridge and has no reason to, his girlfriend may have done but its that long ago they can't remember anything about it, whats the way forward from this now, can it be reset to the PCN again, I know you can do out of time declarations etc but not too clued up on it.

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[PASTMYBEST]

Date of move ?

Date of PCN?

date updated v5c?

Other will want more details no doubt but we cannot start without those 3

[peter p]

Date of move was November 2018, all the other info he has is on the Marstons letters, not sure when he updated the V5, it was after the supposed bridge crossing anyway.

Looks like the PCN was dated 15/12/18 according to the letter. Is the way forward to fill in the TE7 and TE9 no matter what anyway? I've downloaded them for him and will get him to fire them off first thing tomorrow, even if they are rejected then it should hold off enforcement for a few weeks shouldn't it?


This post has been edited by peter p: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 18:36

[Neil B]

will get him to fire them off first thing tomorrow,

Would be a bad move.

Get the info requested first.

And we (you/he) need accuracy.

Date of move was November 2018

Is not a date?

[peter p]

He bought the house in September 2018 but didn't move in for a few weeks before renovating it a bit, it was sometime in November, that's all he knows apparently.

As for the V5 change it was probably a month or two or even longer before he changed it over, he certainly didn't do it before unpacking his clothes and stuff after the move like the DVLA think you should, there were plenty of more pressing things to get sorted out first I would imagine.

Why would it be a bad idea to send off the witness statement as soon as, the bailiffs will be at his door in a few days with hundreds added to the bill. Its obvious the statements will get rejected sooner or later no matter how valid the argument is, thats how it works isn't it? at least sending them off should stop the bailiffs for the next few weeks until the inevitable happen's. No point in paying today if you can do it in a month or so.

[Neil B]

Why would it be a bad idea to send off the witness statement as soon as, the bailiffs will be at his door in a few days with hundreds added to the bill. Its obvious the statements will get rejected sooner or later no matter how valid the argument is, thats how it works isn't it?

We know the risk; the decision of when to 'open fire' is his but ---

No, that isn't how it works; MF can be quite forgiving, from what we've seen.
But the need to understand the forms and put the right info remains important, in order to be successful.
What would he propose to write?

[peter p]

That's what I'm asking for really, I've read a fair bit on the bailiff advice forums and simply writing "the V5 wasn't at my address at the time so I didn't get the letters" simply won't cut it apparently. But the simple fact is the V5 wasn't at his address and he didn't get the letters, so what else can you write?

[Incandescent]

OP, why can't your friend write his own text on here ? When a 3rd party, (yourself) is involved it all seems to go belly-up fairly rapidly.

Message from the front : "send reinforcements we're going to advance"
Message as received: "send three (shillings) and fourpence, we're going to a dance"

Your friend needs to be in no doubt that it will be difficult to revert the process if the basic facts are not accurate.

- Date of change of address
- Date sending off the V5C for update
- Date on the V5C when received back

These can then be compared to the date of the PCN and subsequent documents.

The biggest problem when submitting a Statutory Declaration is that if it is "Out-of-Time" it can be opposed by the enforcement authority, and virtually all councils do oppose, however Mersey Gateway are run by the same firm that run the Thames Dartford Crossing and experience of this forum is that they are much more reasonable than the venal and rapacious councils we see on here. So it might be a good idea to contact them to explain what has happened, but only when you have some facts on the V5C update date. What you need to achieve is them not opposing the OOT SD.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Mon, 19 Aug 2019 - 21:51

[peter p]

OP, why can't your friend write his own text on here ? When a 3rd party, (yourself) is involved it all seems to go belly-up fairly rapidly.

Message from the front : "send reinforcements we're going to advance"
Message as received: "send three (shillings) and fourpence, we're going to a dance"

Your friend needs to be in no doubt that it will be difficult to revert the process if the basic facts are not accurate.

- Date of change of address
- Date sending off the V5C for update
- Date on the V5C when received back

These can then be compared to the date of the PCN and subsequent documents.

The biggest problem when submitting a Statutory Declaration is that if it is "Out-of-Time" it can be opposed by the enforcement authority, and virtually all councils do oppose, however Mersey Gateway are run by the same firm that run the Thames Dartford Crossing and experience of this forum is that they are much more reasonable than the venal and rapacious councils we see on here. So it might be a good idea to contact them to explain what has happened, but only when you have some facts on the V5C update date. What you need to achieve is them not opposing the OOT SD.

Simply because he wont, he will wait until the bailiffs are in his living room and then run round like a blue arsed fly trying to sort it, if he was in the least bit competent he would have paid the £2.

[cp8759]

...he will wait until the bailiffs are in his living room and then run round like a blue arsed fly trying to sort it

Looks like that'll be the outcome in any event then.

[peter p]

Well all I can add to this is the log book wasn't changed until the following may, so there was no mail re-direct either so he had no way of knowing the ticket had been issued. Its not like the exact dates really matter, they are months away.

Moved into the house in November 2018, went over the bridge without paying in December and changed the log book to his new address in May 2019. So what should he write on the TE7 and TE9 forms? if anything.

[Incandescent]

Well all I can add to this is the log book wasn't changed until the following may, so there was no mail re-direct either so he had no way of knowing the ticket had been issued. Its not like the exact dates really matter, they are months away.

Moved into the house in November 2018, went over the bridge without paying in December and changed the log book to his new address in May 2019. So what should he write on the TE7 and TE9 forms? if anything.

Sorry to say it, but from the known facts so far, your friend will be better off paying the bailiffs. With the V5C not updated for four months, any submission will be objected-to by Mersey Gateway and the OOT will then be rejected by TEC. The decision can be reviewed by a county court judge, but this costs £100. The only way your friend might succeed is if he contacts MG first, outlines his story, and hopefully gets an agreement from them that they will not oppose an OOT SD. Then if the OOT is accepted, the matter reverts to the original PCN which can be appealed or paid.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 16:52

[peter p]

That's what I've told him to do today, ring the bridge people and see if they will not oppose the SD but some silly cow has gone up his arse at some traffic lights today or something apparently so he's been preoccupied with sorting all that out, there always seems to be some drama or other with him.

[Neil B]

You've posted notices with two different dates? Please explain.

So what should he write on the TE7 and TE9 forms? if anything.

Has already been answered.

What would he propose to write?

i.e. he starts, we tell him what's wrong.

Incandescent has explained we don't generally deal with 3rd parties and offered a humorous but
brilliant analogy.
Not that we don't want to help and do understand that, for some reason, you want to help your friend.
But you want us to tell you what to write on an application, to a court of law, with the fine for any knowingly
false statements is now, I hear, unlimited and or 2 years in prison -- and we're not even talking to the
person who will sign it? Yeah, that works

Meanwhile, you can't seem to get away from -

will get rejected sooner or later no matter how valid the argument is, thats how it works isn't it?

I've read a fair bit on the bailiff advice forums and simply writing "the V5 wasn't at my address at the time so I didn't get the letters" simply won't cut it apparently.

Yeah, who? What forums?

Personally, I've never heard of Mersey objecting to any applications but we only see the very tip of iceberg.
Fairly sure a bailiff advice expert, friend of this forum, has a very high hit rate with Mersey.

I guess if he's gonna write 'It's all my fault that I didn't receive notices' it might swing things towards a negative
outcome.

Perhaps the bottom line is that you can't get him to engage, as you've implied, and even if he gets appropriate
applications filed with the court, he'll only cock it up a few weeks further on.

Incidentally, how do you even know about this situation he's in?

[cp8759]

...with the fine for any knowingly false statements is now, I hear, unlimited and or 2 years in prison -- and we're not even talking to the
person who will sign it? Yeah, that works

It doesn't even need to be knowingly false. It can be knowingly false, or simply reckless as to whether it's true or false.