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CPM - how to complain about these cowboys?
Mack247
post Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 09:07
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Hi all,

I have received my third PCN from these guys over the past year. The first one I only opened the letter on the payment deadline day and knew nothing about appeals so I paid it. The second one I did a bit of research for, found this site, appealed, they rejected my appeal, then went to POPLA and won my appeal because they never responded to give their side.

Now I've received another, but this is the worst by far.

For this one I drove over to the same local supermarket which has a free car park, policed by CPM. The car park was full but somebody was leaving the supermarket for their car which was parked directly opposite the entrance. I drove up and stopped outside, allowed my wife out of the car while I waited for the other car to pull out and then parked in the vacant space where I waited for her to return. This whole process took, a minute or two max - literally the time it takes for somebody to put three or four bags into a boot and reverse out and drive off.

A week later and I have a PCN from CPM showing two images - one minute apart, of the car stopped. I appealed and explained that the car was stopped momentarily and that my passenger got out while another car vacated their space. I told them that the driver never left the vehicle during the 1-2 mins it was stopped and that I considered the issue of the PCN as an abuse of their position. Their camera evidence will completely support this. The appeal rejection I got was a generic one which included the line "It is the drivers responsibility to ensure are restrictions are adhered to prior to leaving the vehicle unattended".

The whole thing is a complete waste of my time. They didn't consider anything I said and simply rejected with a standard letter beginning "we have carefully considered your appeal...".

I have submitted my POPLA appeal which again I expect to win, but I am very angry that I even have to get involved in this process. Is it possible to make a complaint and have them investigated or have action taken against them?
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post Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 09:07
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Hellfire8
post Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 09:20
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So you were not parked but "stopping" and unloading/loading

Pic of the signs? pretty sure it doesn't say you can not unload/load
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Mack247
post Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 09:23
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Sign says "NO PARKING OUTSIDE OF A DESIGNATED AREA/PARKING SPACE".

They also added in their rejection letter:

"If you are unable to park within a designated area/bay then you should refrain from parking until you can park correctly in accordance with the restrictions".

Which is exactly what I did. So incredibly frustrating.

Not sure how they expect anybody to even read the sign if they will issue a PCN for even stopping momentarily?

My concern now is not about winning my appeal, but about stopping these people from harassing myself and others. I don't want to go through this again for something so unnecessary.

This post has been edited by Mack247: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 09:27
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kommando
post Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 09:31
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But they will cos they can, but win enough of these POPLA appeals at a cost of £27+ each to them and they will eventually add you to a whitelist.
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Hellfire8
post Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 09:32
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See the PPC guy on duty was a bit dodgy with this as he should have "mitigated the company losses" by warning you instead of just ticketing.

very dodgy but not unusual. tbh little you can do, they're ruled by the BPA but they don't give a flying hoot.....

win at popla and cost them some money. it's about it tbh
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Mack247
post Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 09:34
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There was nobody visibly on duty, this was a camera, presumably with an operator watching from some other location.
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Hellfire8
post Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 09:42
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QUOTE (Mack247 @ Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 10:34) *
There was nobody visibly on duty, this was a camera, presumably with an operator watching from some other location.


Probably sitting in their car waiting and spying.....
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Albert Ross
post Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 09:52
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If it was within the confines of a car park, it was in the parking area.


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Hellfire8
post Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 09:59
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QUOTE (Albert Ross @ Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 10:52) *
If it was within the confines of a car park, it was in the parking area.


But it isn't parking, it's dropping off/picking up.
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freddy1
post Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 10:08
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now CPM are a member of the IPC , who happily publish a code of practice

http://www.theipc.info/resources/brandings...of-Practice.pdf

page 13 of 36

and I quote them

"Grace Periods
15.1 Drivers should be allowed a sufficient amount of time to park and read any signs so
they may make an informed decision as to whether or not to remain on the site.
15.2 Drivers should be allowed a sufficient amount of time to leave a site after a pre-paid or
permitted period of parking has expired."


stuff that back in there faces , and ask why they are not following there trade associations code of practice

and if I have got it wrong and they are BPA

BPA Grace periods http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/bpa_...ctober_2012.pdf


page 10 (I think)


Your approach to parking management must allow a
driver who enters your car park but decides not to park,
to leave the car park within a reasonable period without
having their vehicle issued with a parking charge notice.
13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’
in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the
driver is on your land without permission you should still
allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave
before you take enforcement action.


This post has been edited by freddy1: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 10:12
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Mack247
post Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 10:19
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Thanks Freddy. The problem is that there isn't even an opportunity to stuff it back in their faces because they don't even consider any appeal information and simply reject the appeal with standard wording. Would the BPA or IPC even take any action against them for issuing a PCN in this instance? It feels as though they intend to issue as many PCNs as they can, reject all appeals and just play a numbers game on the basis that most people will not proceed to POPLA because of a) the hassle and time involved in doing so and b) the possibility that the appeal gets rejected on the basis of some legal technicality the appealant wasn't aware of.

This post has been edited by Mack247: Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 10:21
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freddy1
post Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 10:30
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I think they are IPC , not the BPA , so there is no POPLa , just a micky mouse appeals system

however quoting there code of practice , and the words of the operator "If you are unable to park within a designated area/bay then you should refrain from parking until you can park correctly in accordance with the restrictions". they will "fudge" over this , and over ride the COP

look nice in court , IF it ever got that far , that you followed the PPC guidelines (waited) and the PPC would not adhere to there trade associations COP

next time you are there , look out for the wardon , he will be the one in uniform , or displaying clear identification , sat in a LIVERED vehicle

if for some reason you spot a guy in a dirty raincoat sat in an old focus , with a camera , take a photo , as that's 2 x 2 sanction points for CPM ,

after the photo , please inform the police of a person sat for hrs in his car on a supermarket carpark looking shady with a camera
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 10:35
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The IPC will take no action. They're a bunch of cowboys

You could write back, rejecting their offer to pay, and state you will be happy to resolve this through ADR that substantively meets the ADR regulations. The IAS does not meet these, in the slightest. Point out that you will note in ADR their failure to abide by their own code of practice by not allowing a grace period
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Mack247
post Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 10:46
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They are IPC and BPA and have issued a POPLA code. I have appealed.
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freddy1
post Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 10:55
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QUOTE (Mack247 @ Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 11:46) *
They are IPC and BPA and have issued a POPLA code. I have appealed.




please give us the full name of the parking company , and link us to there website , or give us the full address


they cannot be in 2 trade associations regarding ATA , thy can however be a member of the IPC as an ATA and a BPA corporate member


is it this lot http://www.cpmsmanchester.com/


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Mack247
post Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 11:07
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Apologies, they are BPA only.

I went to the BPA website and found this:

BPA members

If you wish to complain about a BPA member, you should write to the company or organisation in question in the first instance giving full details of your complaint. We are unable to assist with complaints about individual parking incidents, but if you believe there has been a breach of our code of professional conduct, you can provide feedback.

The feedback word at the end is a link to http://www.britishparking.co.uk/404i.aspx?...rewrite%3dfalse, if you click it you get this:

Page Not Found...
Sorry, the page you were looking for could not be found. Please try returning to the home page.
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freddy1
post Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 11:13
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yes the company is called UK car park management (CPM)

http://www.uk-carparkmanagement.co.uk/

they are listed as being both a BPA ATA and a BPA corporate member

the name of the company in your header was reading CPM and leaded to http://www.cpmsmanchester.com/


hope you linked and quoted from there code of practice

good luck

QUOTE (Mack247 @ Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 12:07) *
Apologies, they are BPA only.

I went to the BPA website and found this:

BPA members

If you wish to complain about a BPA member, you should write to the company or organisation in question in the first instance giving full details of your complaint. We are unable to assist with complaints about individual parking incidents, but if you believe there has been a breach of our code of professional conduct, you can provide feedback.

The feedback word at the end is a link to http://www.britishparking.co.uk/404i.aspx?...rewrite%3dfalse, if you click it you get this:

Page Not Found...
Sorry, the page you were looking for could not be found. Please try returning to the home page.



aos@britishparking.co.uk is a very good shortcut , or even Steve.C@britishparking.co.uk
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Mack247
post Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 11:21
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Thanks, I have submitted a complaint to BPA regarding the conduct of CPM through the general enquiry part of their website and asked for it to be forwarded to the correct area. I have a feeling they will say something about not getting involved in individual cases even though I specifically said in my message that my complaint is not about the appeal being accepted or not but about the conduct of CPM in breaching the Code of Conduct re Grace Periods.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 11:42
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QUOTE (Mack247 @ Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 11:46) *
They are IPC and BPA and have issued a POPLA code. I have appealed.

I hope you properly prepared that appeal!


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Lynnzer
post Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 12:30
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QUOTE (Mack247 @ Thu, 20 Aug 2015 - 10:23) *
Sign says "NO PARKING OUTSIDE OF A DESIGNATED AREA/PARKING SPACE".

They also added in their rejection letter:

"If you are unable to park within a designated area/bay then you should refrain from parking until you can park correctly in accordance with the restrictions".

Which is exactly what I did. So incredibly frustrating.

Not sure how they expect anybody to even read the sign if they will issue a PCN for even stopping momentarily?

My concern now is not about winning my appeal, but about stopping these people from harassing myself and others. I don't want to go through this again for something so unnecessary.

Maybe the Beavis case will put an end to it. Maybe not but here's hoping anyway.
Morning session here
Afternoon session here.

They're long and take a second or third watch to get all the nuances but it looks good for Beavis on the face of things.
Just hope one or more of the Lords keep tabs on these sort of forums.


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