Dunelm Mills Huddersfield, parking contravention |
Dunelm Mills Huddersfield, parking contravention |
Sun, 22 Jan 2012 - 13:26
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: 25 Feb 2010 Member No.: 35,890 |
Hi guys.
Wife and her sister (her sisters car) received a ticket from Parkingeye ltd, overstay at Dunelm mills, (half an hour overstay, two hour limit). They'd been shopping in Dunelm mills, and spent over £250. A little peeved to say the least as they've spent all day in there before now, with no problem. I've had a look at the sticky regarding letters from Parkingeye, any advice on the likely outcome would be appreciated, as sister in law just wants to pay the ticket. Sister in law is the registered keeper, and at the moment I'm thinking about what might happen if she writes and gives my name as the driver on the day in question? As I am a lot less bothered about ignoring any letters than she is. Regards, Norton |
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Sun, 22 Jan 2012 - 13:26
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Sun, 22 Jan 2012 - 13:44
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,985 Joined: 20 Aug 2008 Member No.: 21,992 |
Whoah, don't pay the ticket. Why on earth would you do that?
They are entitled to their losses, against the driver, for breach of a contract that was formed when the signs were read. If your sister wasn't there, then she hasn't entered into a contract, and hence she hasn't breached anything. She is being pursued for breaching a contract she never entered into. If she pays it she's being mugged. You COULD write and own up to being the driver if you think she will not accept this fundamental basis of contract law, hopefully they will then only bombard you with the threat-o-grams, which you would still be safe to ignore. -------------------- Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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Sun, 22 Jan 2012 - 14:01
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,769 Joined: 7 Nov 2009 Member No.: 33,505 |
What you could also do is write to Dunelm Mills threatening never to darken their doorstep again because of the shoddy treatment suffered by one of their customers.
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Sun, 22 Jan 2012 - 14:02
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,553 Joined: 24 Jun 2005 From: London Member No.: 3,246 |
Whoah, don't pay the ticket. Why on earth would you do that? They are entitled to their losses, against the driver, for breach of a contract that was formed when the signs were read. If your sister wasn't there, then she hasn't entered into a contract, and hence she hasn't breached anything. She is being pursued for breaching a contract she never entered into. If she pays it she's being mugged. You COULD write and own up to being the driver if you think she will not accept this fundamental basis of contract law, hopefully they will then only bombard you with the threat-o-grams, which you would still be safe to ignore. Perhaps a better alternative would be for the registered keeper to sign an 'authority' for you to act on the registered keepers behalf and for you then to write/email PE instructing them to only correspond with you regarding the matter. This route has the obvious advantage of PE not being provided with the driver's details. You could then deal/ignore PE to your hearts content. Gan does a sort of template letter/email thing that you could send. (Just as an aside, if a family member were to ever receive a PPC (again) in the future, whilst I personally would correspond with the PPC (to take over the reins so to speak) I would be extremely wary about passing on another persons personal and private details without being satisfied beyond all doubt that there was substance to the PPCs claim and unless they were willing to provide me in the first instance with the legal basis on which the sum claimed equated to a genuine pre-estimate of their losses then I would unfortunately be unable to assist them further) |
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Sun, 22 Jan 2012 - 14:10
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: 25 Feb 2010 Member No.: 35,890 |
Sister in Law is the keeper and was the driver on the day, but she's bricking it already. I'm wondering if the ticket was generated by cctv images or pictures, where they will clearly see I was not the driver, and the consequences of telling them a couple of fibs to start with. I'm more than happy to put all their letters into my bin if we can get away with that first. Her hubby is unwell at the minute, and she isn't in the best of health either, so I need to take the stress away from them if possible.
I, on the other hand, am in very rude and belligerent health. (I might add I haven't seen the ticket as yet, hopefully her hubby will scan it and get it to me today) Norton What you could also do is write to Dunelm Mills threatening never to darken their doorstep again because of the shoddy treatment suffered by one of their customers. E-mail already sent, agreed very shoddy treatment. We've spent over £400 in their store in the last few weeks!!Odd thing is they've been in that store all day long on other trips! and 2.5 hours? for two women to go shopping? that's light speed for those two! They couldn't go in for a look around in under 2 hours. (They were six hours in M&S in Norwich without buying anything) Nort |
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Sun, 22 Jan 2012 - 14:11
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,723 Joined: 3 Apr 2006 From: North Hampshire Member No.: 5,183 |
It matters not what if on CCTV, they have no legal right to issue a "ticket". There is no way that this would go to court, as the consequential loss suffered by overstaying is precisely £0.00. Ignore this one all the way.
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Sun, 22 Jan 2012 - 14:21
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,985 Joined: 20 Aug 2008 Member No.: 21,992 |
We don't advocate fibbing about who the driver was, but even if it was the RK, then they can still only legally pursue for their actual losses. Which, as BaggieBoy says, are zero. They'd look very silly taking this to court.
If your sister does pay up, its game over, and she has been mugged. Strongly advise not to go down the 'pay the ticket, try and claim it back from Dunelm Mill' road, if she considers it. They won't want to know. She should still complain though. Try and find the CEOs name on Google and send it to him/her at their HQ address, don't bother with the local store. -------------------- Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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Sun, 22 Jan 2012 - 15:27
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22,678 Joined: 23 Mar 2009 Member No.: 27,239 |
Whatever happens she must not say that she wasn't driving if in fact she was.
Personally I would wait for the full letter chain before sending to the CEO of Dunelm Mills to show him what the parking company is sending to his customers. If she doesn't want to do this then there are two possible letters she could send : If she was the driver : I deny any debt to your company and will under no circumstances make any payment in the absence of a court judgement. Please commence legal proceedings within ten days or I will draw the obvious conclusion that you in fact have no legal case and regard the matter as closed. I will not contact you again and regard any other communication from your company or any agents as harassment. This will be immediately reported to Trading Standards, BPA and DVLA. If it continues I will also report the matter to the police as a criminal offence under the Protection From Harassment Act. If she wasn't the driver, replace first two paragraphs by : I was not the driver and have no liability for any alleged debt to your company I will not identify the driver to a private company unless directed by a court order at your expense, or a letter signed by your Company Secretary that court papers have been prepared for immediate issue and require only the driver's name. I will not... etc They've been told clearly what they have to do to settle the matter. Any other response that includes a demand or threat confirms that they have no intention to prove the alleged debt and can be reported as harassment |
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Sun, 22 Jan 2012 - 15:33
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,553 Joined: 24 Jun 2005 From: London Member No.: 3,246 |
My concern is that it doesn't matter how much support you give, if they are a 'wobbler' then they will invariable eventually crack under the pressure. Much better to take them out of the equation completely and let someone who's made of sterner stuff deal with the chain-mail.
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Sun, 22 Jan 2012 - 15:55
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22,678 Joined: 23 Mar 2009 Member No.: 27,239 |
What's the best way for the OP to do this without having to reveal who gave him the authority ?
Would you include in the play, informing DVLA that Parking Eye has details of a correspondent and any application for owner details will be fraudulent ? |
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Sun, 22 Jan 2012 - 16:03
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,931 Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Member No.: 4,323 |
fraudulent ?
rather than No reasonable cause -------------------- Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.
Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader. |
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Sun, 22 Jan 2012 - 16:05
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,553 Joined: 24 Jun 2005 From: London Member No.: 3,246 |
What's the best way for the OP to do this without having to reveal who gave him the authority ? Would you include in the play, informing DVLA that Parking Eye has details of a correspondent and any application for owner details will be fraudulent ? Gan, I'll pm you (and the OP) about this later on (I'm just dashing out to see War Horse!) Edit....just a quick one for the OP, is this an actual ticket that was placed on the vehicle or first one through the post - just confirm which one please? This post has been edited by Broadsword: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 - 16:07 |
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Sun, 22 Jan 2012 - 17:21
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 22,678 Joined: 23 Mar 2009 Member No.: 27,239 |
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Sun, 22 Jan 2012 - 18:36
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 165 Joined: 12 Jan 2011 Member No.: 43,423 |
Can I assure your sister in law that nothing will happen if she ignores the letters. I can speak from experience as I got a Parking Eye ticket when my wife and daughter overstayed at a shopping centre.
It's highly unlikely they can identify the driver from their in and out cameras In all likelihood there will be three letters and then nothing. Your sister in law should know that these are completely impersonal, computer generated letters with words like may and intend rather than shall and will. The third, the Final Notice is signed by a John Mitchell, who does not exist, and refers to 'parking abuse of this kind'. As Gan said, I would wait until she gets that and then send a copy to the head honcho of Dunelm. Once you have all three you will see they are no more than pathetic begging letters, largely taken up with the various easy payment methods. Supposedly around 65% of people pay Parking Eye tickets and this is their business model, get the easy money by churning out the tickets and the threatening letters. It is not in their interests to spend time and effort chasing people for money other than by computer generated letters. If you are Norfolk way, a private company based in Chorley is not going to put any 'physical' effort into chasing payment. Not to put too fine a point on it but the people who pay are mugs. Having spoken to three colleagues who have had private parking tickets I was shocked at how much it put the wind up them so I can appreciate how you sister in law feels. After a chat none of them have paid and nothing has happened to them. Millions of drivers go about their daily lives blissfully unaware of private parking companies, until one of their PCN's hits the doormat, Of course these people panic at the scary language, the official appearance and the escalation of the charges. That is exactly what their PCN's are designed to do. They have no idea what the private parking industry is about and the business model. It is not about solving parking problems, it is about making money. What could your sister in law possibly owe Parking Eye ? They don't own the car car park and it's a free car park anyway. Parking Eye are estimated to send out hundreds of thousands of tickets a year. Even if it was only 200,000 tickets it would mean that 70,000 people don't pay. You will struggle to find more than two or three cases where they took someone to court. Any correspondence or communication with Parking Eye will have your sister in law down as a 'hooked fish'. Better to ignore completely. |
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Sun, 22 Jan 2012 - 19:21
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: 25 Feb 2010 Member No.: 35,890 |
What's the best way for the OP to do this without having to reveal who gave him the authority ? Would you include in the play, informing DVLA that Parking Eye has details of a correspondent and any application for owner details will be fraudulent ? Gan, I'll pm you (and the OP) about this later on (I'm just dashing out to see War Horse!) Edit....just a quick one for the OP, is this an actual ticket that was placed on the vehicle or first one through the post - just confirm which one please? Ticket through the post to sister in law, nothing affixed to the vehicle on the day in question. The ticket has pics of her car arriving and leaving. Not good enough pics to identify driver. As mentioned, she's "wobbling", shame really, they don't want to pass my details on either, they're afraid of landing me in it. I've directed them to this site, and this thread, (amongst others). Norton PS Nick Wharton is CEO of Dunelm Mills, a letter is being drafted and will go to him whatever the outcome. I also have an old schoolfriend who is now the managing editor of a local newspaper, (they love the parking scam stories). This post has been edited by nortonfinn: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 - 19:57 |
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Sun, 22 Jan 2012 - 20:12
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 9,985 Joined: 20 Aug 2008 Member No.: 21,992 |
I also have an old schoolfriend who is now the managing editor of a local newspaper, (they love the parking scam stories). Please please please point out to him that no private individual or company has the statutory power or authority to 'fine' any other private individual or company. This ticket does NOT represent a 'fine' - it is a speculative invoice for charges for breaching a contract. For which the remedy is actual loss suffered, which in a free car park, is zero pounds and zero pence. We like the fact that local papers run stories on PPCs, but they ALWAYS refer to their tickets and charges as 'fines' when clearly they aren't. Thanks!! This post has been edited by ManxRed: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 - 20:13 -------------------- Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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Sun, 22 Jan 2012 - 21:09
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,553 Joined: 24 Jun 2005 From: London Member No.: 3,246 |
PM sent to OP
(PS - War Horse.... superb!) |
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Sun, 22 Jan 2012 - 21:17
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 18,751 Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Member No.: 32,130 |
Dunelm Mill have cancelled every fake ticket I have heard of where a complaint has been made.
There were 2 cases on here and/or MSE forums last year, I can recall them well and are worth you reading and showing to your relatives: http://forum.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3251430 http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3401807 Also I can speak from personal experience as well. A good friend asked me for help a couple of months ago as a lady in her eighties had got one of these fake PCns in Dunelm Mill as well. I told him that someone should go into to the store on her behalf, armed with her receipt, and quietly, politely but firmly COMPLAIN about this harassment of paying customers. it worked, the fake PCn was cancelled straight away. Why don't you do that on her behalf? No need to write letters, the branch should cancel the offending piece of rubbish. PLEASE don't let her pay it and please don't take too long to act or she may just panic and pay them. If she does she really has been mugged. This is not a real parking ticket. |
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