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Britannia PCN for exceeding time
mummyJ
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 22:50
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PCN received for 28 mins over a 3hour limit at a retail centre car park. Appealed as registered keeper, rejected, given POPLA code. I would welcome advice on any grounds for POPLA appeal. The letter to keeper was received within the 14 days required for holding the keeper liable for the parking charge. The driver doen not remember seeing any signs about parking timelimits but Britannia have replied tothe appeal with stock close up photo of sign and also an ariel photo of retail complex with location of signs. This car park isn't nearby so I cant easily get photos of positioning or size of Britannia Parking signs. I also saw somewhere that Britannia are beginning to go to court. Is this true? And can they go to court if they do not own the land of the car park?. Any advice welcome. thanks
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post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 22:50
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ostell
post Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 07:04
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Have a read of POFA

9 (2) (d) is missing, unless it is elsewhere
9 (2) (f) is not stated correctly
9 (2) (e) is not as prescribed
9 (2) (i) is it there? It's not the same as issued. (hence that 29 days given is incorrect)

The signs are not readily visible

You have Google maps and street view to look at the location.

Query that they have the right to go to court and demand to see the actual contract, a witness statement is not acceptable

This post has been edited by ostell: Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 07:10
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kommando
post Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 07:34
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Britannia have been known to send undated photos of signs to POPLA, as long as you point that out at the right stage that will win. Not the most professional outfit so lots to go at.
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Jlc
post Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 07:53
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QUOTE (mummyJ @ Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 23:50) *
I also saw somewhere that Britannia are beginning to go to court. Is this true?

A handful of cases - not particularly litigious. But they do have 6 years to raise a claim.

QUOTE (mummyJ @ Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 23:50) *
And can they go to court if they do not own the land of the car park?

They don't need to own the land but have sufficient rights granted to them. If they do, then yes they can.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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mummyJ
post Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 17:48
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Thanks Ostell. It would be wonderful if Britannias PCN did not meet those POFA9 paragraphs but I am struggling to understand the legal wording of POFA and how the PCN fails.

I have looked up POFA 9(2) (d) which is
(d)specify the total amount of those parking charges that are unpaid, as at a time which is—
(i)specified in the notice; and
(ii)no later than the end of the day before the day on which the notice is either sent by post or, as the case may be, handed to or left at a current address for service for the keeper (see sub-paragraph (4));

Im not sure I understand what the above means...….or how its missing on my PCN ?. The date and time of the parking contravention were on the PCN but I blacked out on my photo upload.

9(2)(e)
state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—
(i)
to pay the unpaid parking charges; or
(ii)
if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;

You say not as prescribed, do you mean that the PCN did not state exactly 'Britannia does not know the name or address of the driver'? Its only implied by wording 'if you were not the driver...'?

and 9(2)(f)
warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—
(i)
the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and
(ii)
the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,
the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

Again, the wording on my PCN seems to satisfy 9(2)f. If it does not, can you explain where it is incorrect?

9(2)I (i)
specify the date on which the notice is sent (where it is sent by post) or given (in any other case). the date and time of the contravention was on the PCN which had an issue date but I obscured it in my uploaded photo.

hoping you can clarify. thank you mummyJ
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ostell
post Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 19:44
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9 (2) (d) The wording is just not there Do they say the total amount of the parking charge that remains unpaid ?

9 (2) (e) Where is the invitation for the keeper to pay or the driver to be named?

9 (2) (f) The period is given as 29 days, the date is when the notice is given, ie it is given 2 days after sending not 2 days after the date of issue, 2 seperate things.

9 (2) (i) The issue date is not the same as the date of sending. The date of sending has to be specified.

9 (2) starts with "The notice must—" ie all thos parts must be there and not a variation.
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mummyJ
post Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 17:18
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Hi Ostell

Thanks again. Trying to choose which ground to appeal to POPLA. There are 5 categories:

1)My car was stolen,

2) I was not improperly parked

3)Amount requested on PCN is not correct

4)I was not driver or registered keeper

5) Other including Extreme circumstances prevented me from parking correctly.

Firstly, the extreme circumstances prevented complying with parking correctly option. The overstay was due to restaurant extremely slow service for a very large group. This is what happened but is it likely to win appeal.??
Should it be put forward as just one reason for appeal along with other category??

Non compliance with POFA. My choices for appealing are:

9 (2) (d)The PCN says in large lettering at the top of page: Parking Charge Amount Due £100. Ostell does that not comply with 9(2) (d)


9(2) (e). The PCN does not say we invite the driver or registered keeper to pay the penalty charge. But isn't that implied when the PCN says under 9(2) (b) that the driver is required to pay in full or inform us of the driver name and address

9(2) (f) The PCN says ..You are advised that if, after 29 days from the date given (which is presumed to be the second working day after the Date issued) the parking charge has not been paid in full and we do not know both the name and current address of the driver, we have the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from you as the vehicle's registered keeper. this notice is give to your under paragraph 9(2)(f) of etc etc

Ostell, How does this not comply with 9(2)(f) warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—
(i)
the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and
(ii)
the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,
the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

Again, the wording on my PCN seems to satisfy 9(2)f.

9(2)(I) to me this seems the clearest breach of POFA. My PCN does not state the posting date only the issue date. So should I just appeal on (9)(2)(I)??


If any other experienced contributors on this forum have any further advice I would be very grateful.

thanks mummyJ
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ostell
post Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 21:14
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The issue date is not the date of posting or sending therefore 9 (2) (f) has been stated incorrectly. The given date is 2 working days after sending

9 (2) (d) where is there a satement of the amount unpaid?

9 (2) is all the statments that MUST be there.

You appeal on everything.

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mummyJ
post Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 22:11
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Thanks Ostell

I see some people quote POFA and go into long detail, paragraphs even pages of why the parking operator PCN is wrongly worded. Do you think this is necessary.

Could I just say to be valid, the PCN needs to meet all the requirement of 9(2) and it does not meet 9(2) parts d,e,f and i

or should I write each POFA point separately??? eg

Dear POPLA 9(2)(f) the PCN wording does not comply because it states that the date given is presumed to be the second working day after the Date issued.

POFA says The date of sending has to be specified.The period is given as 29 days, the date is when the notice is given, ie it is given 2 days after sending not 2 days after the date of issue, 2 seperate things.

and 9(2)(I) PCN does not state date of posting which is required.

Ostell I need to finish appeal tonight!

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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 07:33
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Yes, you explain in painstaking details what was required to be stated nad what the opersator has instead put. and how this does not comply. Treat POPLA as small children - theyre poorly trained.
So you write a SECTION about POFA compliance and list each failing there.
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