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Postal PCN by CPM
Zazaa
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 13:17
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Hiya,

Brother is renting a room, as a lodger, in a block of flats.

He's received the following to our home address.




The sign that's around is as follows:




and he has this as a permit:

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post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 13:17
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peterguk
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 13:20
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Related to your other thread involving CPM and a brother who is a lodger?
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=122608&hl=


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ostell
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 13:40
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Yes, it was getting confusing with two PCNs, a NTD and a NTK in play.

As said previously when exactly did it arrive? We're looking for more than 14 days after the parking event. There should be a date of sending on the NTK.
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Zazaa
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 16:17
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QUOTE (ostell @ Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 14:40) *
Yes, it was getting confusing with two PCNs, a NTD and a NTK in play.

As said previously when exactly did it arrive? We're looking for more than 14 days after the parking event. There should be a date of sending on the NTK.



The issued date is 24.08.18. I cannot see any dates on the envelope. Furthermore, if I say it came last week, where's the proof it came last week?

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ostell
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 16:28
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Your word that it came last week. Can they prove they sent it on that day and by first class royal mail? There being nothing on the envelope suggests it was indeed not royal mail. The critical time is was it longer than 14 days before is was received. If it was after the 30th August then it's out of time.

And so:

Sirs

Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy

I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. I have no liability on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the prescribed relevant period of 14 days, contrary to section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me.

There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc.


Expect rejection anyway but ignore and don't appeal to the IAS. COme back if it gets to a Letter Before Claim.

This post has been edited by ostell: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 16:28
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Zazaa
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 17:36
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QUOTE (ostell @ Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 17:28) *
Your word that it came last week. Can they prove they sent it on that day and by first class royal mail? There being nothing on the envelope suggests it was indeed not royal mail. The critical time is was it longer than 14 days before is was received. If it was after the 30th August then it's out of time.

And so:

Sirs

Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy

I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. I have no liability on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the prescribed relevant period of 14 days, contrary to section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me.

There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc.


Expect rejection anyway but ignore and don't appeal to the IAS. COme back if it gets to a Letter Before Claim.


Ah Ok. and so here we write the correct and true registered keeper's information.

The envelope has:

Delivered by Royal Mail C9 10001.

Does that mean anything?
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ostell
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 18:23
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Yes, you are appealing as the keeper.

I believe it means that they originally sent it with one of the bulk mail companies that hold mail for a while until they have enough for an area then they send it to the royal mail for delivery. There is no Frank mark or stamp. So perhaps your recollection about receipt last week is correct. If the date could be remembered so much the better.

Send your appeal by first Class mail and get a free certificate of posting from your local Post Office as proof that you sent it and whwn.

This post has been edited by ostell: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 18:24
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kommando
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 18:34
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They have no proof of service as first or second class is beyond their means wink.gif , well if they can't be bothered its no wonder it comes after 14 days and they cannot dispute that because they are cheap robbing scamsters.

Rant over.
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Zazaa
post Wed, 24 Oct 2018 - 16:44
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Update on this.

Letter received, but none to acknowledge the letter I had sent stating that they were out of time with sending their correspondence.







i sent the following:

Dear Sirs,

PCN: xxxxxxxx
Vehicle Registration: xxxxxxxx

am the registered keeper of the above vehicle, and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. I have no liability on this matter, as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the prescribed relevant period of 14 days, contrary to section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me.
There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.
Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours,

xxxxxxxxx
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 25 Oct 2018 - 08:23
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You didnt expect them to bother to read your letter did you?
Or if they did, to actually admit they cant hold you liable?

You could write back, pointing out their assertion (the "we the creditor" line) is false, and a misrepseentaiton of the facts, as they know they are out of time to hold you liable as Keeper. But this is only to allow a court to see you are reasonable.
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Zazaa
post Thu, 25 Oct 2018 - 10:29
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I think I'm just going to pay this. These penalties and fighting them are draining ): I have fibromyalgia which is exhausting enough on its own.
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ManxRed
post Thu, 25 Oct 2018 - 10:39
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Your choice.

I would suggest that you give consideration to the fact that UK CPM Ltd are notoriously predatory, and as a result of paying up, you'll get loads more tickets stuck on your vehicle. Regardless of whether you display valid permits or not.

They run a scheme in an unadopted road round the corner from me, and I know some of the residents. They get ticketed all the time, when they have done nothing wrong at all.


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Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 25 Oct 2018 - 13:37
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Why pay now?
Why not wait and see?
You can file and ignore anything that isnt a letter before action
BY paying up you WILL be targetted by them, regardless of what you do with your permit.
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Zazaa
post Thu, 25 Oct 2018 - 15:15
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I can't not pay else this will go to court or the bailiffs
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ManxRed
post Thu, 25 Oct 2018 - 15:20
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Will it?

Under what circumstances do you think the bailiffs might turn up? They can only turn up with a court order, which they can only get if you refuse to pay the court judgement, which you can only get if you are taken to court AND you lose.

There's a lot of things in there that you can influence directly, win or lose.

There is a very real chance that if you pay, you will be targeted for more tickets as they will mark you down as a soft touch.

I appreciate you want to rid your self of the stress of this, but think carefully before paying it, it could well lead to much worse stress.


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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 26 Oct 2018 - 08:03
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As above
Bailiffs cant just appear, from nowhere. They are court appointed, and only appear IF you have lost a court claim. You dont even have a court claim. they also dont take EVERY ticket to court - you dont even have a 50% chance of that.

Please, dont pay .
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ostell
post Fri, 26 Oct 2018 - 08:53
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Court is not what you see on TV, It's normally a side room in the court building with 3 desks. You know the judges desk 'cause it is the biggest one. Nothing at all like what you see on TV.
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Zazaa
post Mon, 29 Oct 2018 - 17:09
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I'm going to leave the place by April maybe.

I think I forgot to get proof of postage for sending the letter to them.

It sounds like i'm meant to be waiting till this goes to court, because my letters will always go unread and not acknowledged.
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 30 Oct 2018 - 08:27
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No, youre still not reading
They do not take every unpaid ticket to court
Not even close .
If you leave then you MUST give then your new ADDRESS FOR SERVICE. You CANNOT forget this.
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SchoolRunMum
post Tue, 30 Oct 2018 - 21:28
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Just keep your address updated and stop panicking an thinking of paying a scam.

Court stage is where these are won! No risk, no CCJ, no bailiffs, no huge costs, as long as you keep them updated of your real address and follow all court stages with our help.

Guess what the worst case scenario is? That you might be one of the 1% or so who might lose here, and be told to pay about £175. Big deal.

Fight it and the huge odds in your favour are that the Defendant will pay nothing.

Also, if you pay, had it not crossed your mind that you will be SPONSORING AND SUPPORTING THE SCAM and directly bankrolling the next 3 or 4 PCNs against more victims?

Don't be that shameful person! ...harsh but true.

Don't be that rare person who comes here, gets our advice, knows there is no risk at all of anything bad, then joins the scam for 'an easy life' and funds more PCNs.
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