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ParkingEye PCN for parking at Coventry Health Centre
unhappy_camper
post Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 18:34
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I (RK) have received a PCN from Parking Eye for a stay at the Coventry NHS Health Centre. In addition to being treated rudely by the staff and receiving no help, now I have this to deal with, and I want to ask for help/advise how to deal with it.


Overall, the car entered well after sunset, and it turns out the total stay in the car park was 12 minutes. I have already contacted VirginCare (as they own the Health Centre) by messagin their customer service team on Twitter, but they are unwilling to help (this was part of their reply: "Unfortunately we do not administer the parking at the health centre so you will need to take up your concerns about the subsequent parking ticket you received with Parking Eye and dispute the ticket with them directly.").

So, it seems that I need to lodge an appeal to Parking Eye. I have puzzled together an appeal, based on various appeals to be found online (for reference, the sign in question is this one: https://d13esfgglb25od.cloudfront.net/lot_i...15b281de5.jpg):

QUOTE
Re PCN number: xxx

I wish to appeal and dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn, nor was there an agreed contract.
This charge was issued for the parking at the Coventry Health Centre Car Park, where a patient was dropped off to receive treatment at the Health Centre, who patient was in urgent need of treatment

This appeal is based on two grounds.

1.There may be signs at the facilities, but not all areas are well-signed as a car drives through the site, an issue which is further exacerbated by the poor lighting in the area after sunset. Thus, unlike the findings regarding the ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis case, the driver here was certainly not 'bound to' have seen the terms nor could be considered to have 'agreed' to a parking contract like Mr Beavis did. In addition, upon reviewing the sings after receiving the PCN, I conclude that signs are not immediately obvious in setting out the parking terms, as the text is cluttered with insufficient whitespace in the background, and the evening parking charge is unremarkable and hidden in the cluttered text. It is indisputable that placing letters too close together in order to fit more information into a smaller space can drastically reduce the legibility of a sign, especially one which must be read BEFORE the action of parking and leaving the car.

2. The British Parking Association Code of Practice (13.1-13.2) states the following regarding grace periods:

“ 13.1 If a driver is parking without your permission, or at locations where parking is not normally permitted they must have the chance to read the terms and conditions before they enter into the ‘parking contract’ with you. If, having had that opportunity, they decide not to park but choose to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable grace period to leave, as they will not be bound by your parking contract.
13.2 If the parking location is one where parking is normally permitted, you must allow the driver a reasonable grace period in addition to the parking event before enforcement action is taken. In such instances the grace period must be a MINIMUM of 10 minutes. (emphasis mine)”

The notice was issued for a time in the car park of 12 minutes. Given the nature of the business associated with this car park (NHS walk-in centre), where passengers may require assistance to get out of the car and into the premises, I would argue that 12 minutes is within a reasonable period for a parking event PLUS a minimum of 10 minute grace period. In effect, this constitutes an unfair charge for non-parking activity of merely dropping off, picking up and leaving within minutes which is “out of all proportion” to the interest of the landowner for whom Parking Eye provides the service. This type of charge is explicitly mentioned in the Beavis case as one that would fail the penalty rule.

Should you decide to reject this appeal, I require with your rejection letter, all images taken of this vehicle & the signs at the location that day by first class mail. Do not withhold any images or data later relied on for POPLA/court.



I want to ask the collective wisdom of everyone here whether this appeal stands any chance, and if there is anything in there I should (or should not) mention. Any suggestions are very much appreciated.

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This post has been edited by unhappy_camper: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 19:06
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post Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 18:34
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ostell
post Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 18:45
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The sign does not display. Could you post up the PCN, suitably redacted, but leave dates.

If the driver was visiting the health centre as a prospective patient then complain the the health centre.
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unhappy_camper
post Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 18:49
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Thanks, I have fixed the link for the sign and will post the PCN in a little bit (date would be 31 Aug, entry around 8.30 pm).

As the keeper, I have already contacted the health centre (or at least the company that manages it, should I try to call the center directly?) but they conveniently pass on their responsibility to the Parking Eye.

Edit: added the PCN

This post has been edited by unhappy_camper: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 19:07
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Jlc
post Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 19:46
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QUOTE (unhappy_camper @ Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 19:34) *
I want to ask the collective wisdom of everyone here whether this appeal stands any chance

Nope, there's nothing you can say that will make them cancel it.

POPLA will likely conclude the PCN was 'correctly issued'.

Actually, it's not even 12 minutes - conveniently rounded up!

So, it's up to them whether they issue a court claim. It is defendable for the very reasons you cite but it's all about brinkmanship.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 19:46


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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unhappy_camper
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 07:27
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 20:46) *
QUOTE (unhappy_camper @ Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 19:34) *
I want to ask the collective wisdom of everyone here whether this appeal stands any chance

Nope, there's nothing you can say that will make them cancel it.

POPLA will likely conclude the PCN was 'correctly issued'.

Actually, it's not even 12 minutes - conveniently rounded up!

So, it's up to them whether they issue a court claim. It is defendable for the very reasons you cite but it's all about brinkmanship.


I was afraid of that, basically it means just keep fighting until someone gives in.
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unhappy_camper
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 13:16
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OP here:



I gave the health centre quick call today. First of all they say I should just pay, then they say they can't do anything about it as it is administered by Parking Eye (which is a blatant lie).

Then they say, ' oh, if you want you can speak to this lady but you would have to come in with all your details on Mo-Fr between 9 and 3' (who with a full time job can do that), and based on the way they treat people so far I am sure that lady would just say the same thing anyway.

Finally, to top it all, the person I was talking to on the phone starts slagging me off to her coworker after she thinks she has hung up the phone.

Lesson here for future if people find this thread when dealing with this Health Centre: don't even bother trying them to cancel it unless you just want to be disappointed and treated rudely.
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ostell
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 13:36
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So you write a letter addressed to the practise manager to complain about the attitude of their staff, copy the local NHS trust and Care Quality Commision.
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unhappy_camper
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 13:44
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I fully intend to file appropiate complaints, so let's just leave it at that.

Coming back to the ticket, it seems that the only option now is to appeal at ParkingEye. Apparently it doesn't really matter what I write, but just to make sure, does anyone spot anything in the draft appeal in the original post in this thread that I absolutely should change?

This post has been edited by unhappy_camper: Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 13:56
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cabbyman
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 16:42
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That'll do. They will reject but should come back with a POPLA code.

Start preparing your POPLA appeal, based on others on the forum, but edited to ensure it applies to your case.

Post here for fine tuning.


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Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
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