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Ace Security Charge Notice and appeal
frequency
post Tue, 11 Sep 2018 - 21:41
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Hello All,

Hoping someone with more grey matter than me can advise what I should and shouldn't do next.

The driver received a parking charge notice last weekend whilst the car was unattended in a visitors bay in a residential estate in West London, the driver had broken down and pushed the car off the main road into this estate and then went back to a friend whose house they had just left to phone and wait for a mechanic.

A couple of things to consider, the car is my mothers (the driver was taking her to visit) so she is the registered keeper. Ace are a member of IPC so can get the keepers details and I really don't want her to start receiving demands for payment as she is elderly and isn't good with stress.

An appeal was made directly to ACE as advised on their 'ticket' as broke down and provided proof of a call out to a local garage and receipt of work done and included my name and address to spare my mum the stress as below:

Re PCN number: xxxx
Vehicle reg: xxxx xxx

I appeal and dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability.
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn, nor was there an agreed contract.

The driver of the vehicle had broken down and took steps to get the car off the road as quickly and safely as possible from xxxx road into xxxxx (****attached photos showing that there were zig zags along the road due to a zebra crossing and that the only safe option was to turn left into the parking controlled estate****)

The driver then returned to his hosts home to locate and contact a breakdown mechanic and await arrival of the breakdown service.

Please find attached a copy of the mechanics VAT invoice. (****attached scan of receipt****)

I contend that due to a mechanical breakdown the driver did not enter into a contractual agreement with Ace Security services Ltd trading as Pace.

My name

My address


They replied the next day as below:

Dear xxxx xxxx

Thank you for your e-mail, unfortunately as this stage we can only accept an appeal from the driver who parked the vehicle prior to the Charge Notice being issued, as the responsibility lies with them as they entered in to the contract for parking, and they must appeal within 28 days otherwise they will lose the right to appeal.

The registered Keeper can only appeal after 28 days of the Charge Notice being issued and a Notice to Keeper being sent out and received. As you have contacted us regarding this Charge Notice, you are already aware of it and therefore you would lose the right to appeal after the 28 days from when the Charge Notice was issued.

Therefore we would politely suggest that the driver appeals to us regarding this Charge Notice. As previously stated, if the driver does not identify themselves within 28 days of the Charge Notice being issued the right to appeal will be lost.

Yours Sincerely,

Appeals Department
Ace Security Services


So as above Ace have declined to accept my appeal as I did not name the driver... I am assuming that giving them the drivers name will not then allow my appeal to be considered and upheld... that this is simply a tactic to get me to name the driver and they will press on regardless?

A few questions as below:

1: If they will not consider my initial appeal can I still appeal via the IPC (even if this is a kangaroo court)?

2: If I receive a claim letter from their solicitors, will they send this to me ...or to the registered keeper, being mindful that I do not want the driver to receive anything that may cause them any stress?

3: I sent a VAT mechanics receipt and photos showing zig zag lines on the main road the only option being for the driver to pull off the road. Would a judge in the county court dismiss this or does Ace have the right to penalise me where I have proof of mechanical failure? What i am asking is breaking down and being unable to move a car for a short period of time a solid and robust defence ... or should I just pay to avoid the stress?

Thanks in advance for any insight

This post has been edited by frequency: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 - 22:04
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post Tue, 11 Sep 2018 - 21:41
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frequency
post Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 17:04
Post #21


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Is it worth linking to any more images I have the actual parking notice, the ticket on my car windshield showing the visitor permit and an extract from the property management company?
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Eljayjay
post Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 17:07
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It would be good to see the whole of the tenancy agreement in the form of a pdf file (after any personal data has been redacted).

It does, however, seem from the little that you have posted that the tenant has been a tenant for 11 years. If so, there will almost certainly be nothing in the tenancy agreement covering the parking operator's scheme. In addition, the parking terms in the tenancy agreement cover "You (i.e. the tenant, members of your household and your visitors".

Would the tenant be willing to send a stiff letter to the housing association complaining about the ticket being affixed to his/her visitor's vehicle?
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post Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 17:19
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QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 18:07) *
It would be good to see the whole of the tenancy agreement in the form of a pdf file (after any personal data has been redacted).

It does, however, seem from the little that you have posted that the tenant has been a tenant for 11 years. If so, there will almost certainly be nothing in the tenancy agreement covering the parking operator's scheme. In addition, the parking terms in the tenancy agreement cover "You (i.e. the tenant, members of your household and your visitors".

Would the tenant be willing to send a stiff letter to the housing association complaining about the ticket being affixed to his/her visitor's vehicle?


The tenant already contacted the HA and was totally rebuffed, the HA and the housing management company are separate entities, the housing management firm is a one star trust pilot review recipient...

Might just email Ace again adding in the letter as proof that 'till the 1st September' is not excluding 1st September as 'until' would.

Sadly no PDF doc, tenant has been taking photos and sending to me, I believe its some 17 pages.

Thanks.
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post Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 20:15
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Is this a good 2nd email to send to the PPC, initial appeal rejected due to non disclosure of the driver, please note the CN was issued on 1st September?

As before I appeal and dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability.
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn, nor was there an agreed contract.
Further to my initial email please see as follows:

Due to the breakdown details supplied it wasn’t thought necessary to offer this additional information, however as the tenant has found the letter extending the period of grace till 1st September, please see as below:

Attached and below a photo detailing a period of grace offered by the Estate Management to the tenant who issued the visitor parking permit to the driver
(photo of letter)

As attached and below photo showing both the permit clearly visible in the windscreen of the vehicle along with your ‘parking charge’.
(photo of windscreen showing permit)

Below and as attached the vehicle with permit in a visitors parking bay
(car parked in bay showing V for visitors)

I contend that as the tenant has still not been supplied with permits for Ace as parking enforcers and the period of grace was extended till the 1st September that the CN should not have been issued and kindly ask you to cancel this charge.
I will be contesting this in court should you wish to pursue this.

Xxxx xxxx


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cabbyman
post Wed, 12 Sep 2018 - 23:14
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Amended:

Further to my E mail of xx/xx/xx, I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability.
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn, nor was there an agreed contract.
Further to my initial email please see as follows:

The driver had broken down, as previously advised. I have now been informed of a letter extending the period of grace till 1st September, as below:

Attached and below a photo detailing a period of grace offered by the Estate Management to the tenant who issued the visitor parking permit to the driver
(photo of letter)

As attached and below photo showing both the permit clearly visible in the windscreen of the vehicle along with your ‘parking charge’.
(photo of windscreen showing permit)

Below and as attached the vehicle with permit in a visitors parking bay
(car parked in bay showing V for visitors)

I contend that as the tenant has still not been supplied with permits for Ace as parking enforcers and the period of grace was extended till the 1st September that the CN should not have been issued and require you to cancel this charge.
I will be contesting this in court should you wish to pursue this.

Xxxx xxxx



--------------------
Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
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post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 13:55
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 00:14) *
Amended:

Further to my E mail of xx/xx/xx, I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability.
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn, nor was there an agreed contract.
Further to my initial email please see as follows:

The driver had broken down, as previously advised. I have now been informed of a letter extending the period of grace till 1st September, as below:

Attached and below a photo detailing a period of grace offered by the Estate Management to the tenant who issued the visitor parking permit to the driver
(photo of letter)

As attached and below photo showing both the permit clearly visible in the windscreen of the vehicle along with your ‘parking charge’.
(photo of windscreen showing permit)

Below and as attached the vehicle with permit in a visitors parking bay
(car parked in bay showing V for visitors)

I contend that as the tenant has still not been supplied with permits for Ace as parking enforcers and the period of grace was extended till the 1st September that the CN should not have been issued and require you to cancel this charge.
I will be contesting this in court should you wish to pursue this.

Xxxx xxxx


Thanks Cabbyman, that is much better.

Have taken up the cudgel against the estate management company using the period of grace being till 1st September and no new permits being issued, they are arguing back and saying that the driver has to appeal to the PPC, am still on this course of action as I think they didn't clearly explain the end date of the period of grace

Stupidly when I emailed the appeal email trail to the Estate Management company to show them why I shouldn't have been ticketed I wrote to them that "I" this and "I" that instead of the driver :/

Schoolboy error, am thinking that they cant forward my mail to the PPC under the data protection act, anyway all very miserable.
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post Sat, 15 Sep 2018 - 12:30
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So got the below from the estate management company yesterday smile.gif

On this occasion as a gesture of goodwill I have spoken with Ace Security and had the ticket rescinded. I would kindly request this information is not shared with other members of the development as I am not in a position to be able to have tickets cancelled without incurring additional expenses.
Kind regards
xxxxx


This was after sending the below cribbed from Parking Prankster and the latter part from LBC to MC Hairray on scribd.

Dear xxxx
There are many residential situations where some form of parking management is desired, some of these companies however leave a lot to be desired.
These companies, such as ACE Security have no desire to implement proper parking management and only want to introduce schemes which are hard to use and which allow them to issue as many parking charges to residents as possible.
Typical tactics are a feeding frenzy of ticket issuing on day one of the contract, refusal to issue multiple permits, failure to reissue new permits on expiry of old tickets, reliance on paper permits, and refusal to cancel charges when a mistake has been made by them.
The reason why management companies introduce most of these schemes is to deter non-residents from using residents' parking spaces. The reality is that most charges are issued to residents.
Ms xxxxx has at this point still not been issued with any new permits by Remus or by Ace, therefore her primacy of contract in her lease which affords her, her household and visitors the right to park cannot be breached by a third party i.e. Ace Security.
Please be aware that should this ‘parking charge’ not be cancelled forthwith I will add Remus as a party to any proceedings which Ace Security trading as Pace may bring against me, and that I will make a claim against Remus within those proceedings (or by way of a separate claim) for damages in respect of breach of contract.
Yours faithfully,
Xxxxxx


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kommando
post Sat, 15 Sep 2018 - 13:18
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I would be asking why in the future the MA has to pay for cancellations of the leaseholders have primacy, tail wagging dog, an idiot must have signed that contract.

This post has been edited by kommando: Sat, 15 Sep 2018 - 13:20
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ostell
post Sat, 15 Sep 2018 - 13:24
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And why should the residents not be told about the situation as the managing agents shold be working for the benefit of the residents.
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post Sat, 15 Sep 2018 - 13:43
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QUOTE (kommando @ Sat, 15 Sep 2018 - 14:18) *
I would be asking why in the future the MA has to pay for cancellations of the leaseholders have primacy, tail wagging dog, an idiot must have signed that contract.


agreed

QUOTE (ostell @ Sat, 15 Sep 2018 - 14:24) *
And why should the residents not be told about the situation as the managing agents shold be working for the benefit of the residents.


This is the worst of it... yes I saw a number of vehicles 'ticketed' on the 1st day. Poor show.
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cabbyman
post Sat, 15 Sep 2018 - 13:51
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You need to make the point that you only display a permit for their convenience. Should you so desire, you will cease displaying at your will.

Also, if you have an allocated space within your lease, withdraw any implied consent the PPC feel they may have. Breach will cost them £100.


--------------------
Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
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Churchmouse
post Sat, 15 Sep 2018 - 19:03
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Sat, 15 Sep 2018 - 14:51) *
You need to make the point that you only display a permit for their convenience. Should you so desire, you will cease displaying at your will.

Also, if you have an allocated space within your lease, withdraw any implied consent the PPC feel they may have. Breach will cost them £100.

Put up a sign...

--Churchmouse
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frequency
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 11:05
Post #33


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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Sat, 15 Sep 2018 - 14:51) *
You need to make the point that you only display a permit for their convenience. Should you so desire, you will cease displaying at your will.

Also, if you have an allocated space within your lease, withdraw any implied consent the PPC feel they may have. Breach will cost them £100.


Hi Cabbyman, they did offer to opt out of parking permits altogether but it isn't my tenancy and the tenant decided to keep with the permit system simply to have a visitor permit in addition to her own allocated space.

QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Sat, 15 Sep 2018 - 20:03) *
QUOTE (cabbyman @ Sat, 15 Sep 2018 - 14:51) *
You need to make the point that you only display a permit for their convenience. Should you so desire, you will cease displaying at your will.

Also, if you have an allocated space within your lease, withdraw any implied consent the PPC feel they may have. Breach will cost them £100.

Put up a sign...

--Churchmouse


If it was my space Churchmouse then I would, but luckily all ok now, very grateful for everybody's input, am much more aware now of this scam and contract law.
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