PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Urgent Please - One Parking Solution PCN Whilst Helping Move in to New Flat?
Wheels
post Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 17:58
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 168
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Member No.: 50,542



Hi Folks

I need to respond urgently, because in my haste I saw 28days, but it says I must respond within 14 days to keep discounted rate.

My son was moving into his new flat, two people came to help, one with his furniture in a van and the other with the trolley wheels in his car. They both drove into the car park which is for residents only and parked, they looked for somewhere to pay, one being foreign tried to buy a ticket from the electric car charging point! He saw a chap in a high viz jacket and asked if he was the car park attendant, because he wanted to buy a ticket or have permission to park to unload. He replied he was not he was working on the fire regulations, but if he just put a note in his windscreen he was sure the unloading would be okay? However, they could not get out if they wanted to because a large lorry was delivering and had parked in the entrance.

Anyway, they did a relay, one with wheels to the door of the new block and one on the inside going up in the lift. In the time it took to get to the door and back a ticket had been issued. The chap saw a man walking out of the car park, he called to him and asked if he worked for the car park, he said no I work for a private company and kept walking. He asked if he had just issued his ticket, he replied he didn't want any trouble and kept walking, the chap said didn't you see the note in my window, he came back and took a photo of the note and walked away. He shot off to tell my son, because the van had not been given a ticket, by the time he got back down in the lift the van had a ticket too.

The man who gave out the ticket must have been hiding in the wings ready to pounce when nobody was there, he was wearing a shirt and trousers looking like he was an office worker and had no ID, gadget or anything on him to indicate that he was a parking attendant.

My question is this, is this likely to be a successful appeal as it appears from what I have read that things are becoming more difficult as time goes by? Surely somebody is allowed to move into their home without getting a ticket?

Any thoughts gratefully received.

Wheels
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
4 Pages V   1 2 3 > »   
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 17:58
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
cabbyman
post Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 18:04
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5,950
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
From: South of John O'Groats, north of Cape Town.
Member No.: 16,066



Is there only a windscreen ticket so far? Has anything been received through the post?

What was the date of the parking event?

Ignore the discounted rate blackmail. With the right approach, you will be paying nothing.


--------------------
Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eljayjay
post Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 18:31
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 874
Joined: 1 Apr 2017
Member No.: 91,235



cabbyman is absolutely right - ignore the discounted rate blackmail.

Is you son the leasehold owner of the flat? Or is he a tenant?

If the former, what does his lease say about parking? If the latter, what does his tenancy agreement say about parking?

There will be other things for which you or he needs to search in the appropriate document. To save time, post the whole document in its entirety (after redacting any personal details) and I shall gladly look at it.


This post has been edited by Eljayjay: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 18:34
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 18:35
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,309
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



They'll reject any appeal made - that is a fact.

If only a PCN has been issued on the vehicle so far then it's possible to frustrate the keeper liability process by appealing as the keeper around day 21/22.

They are not litigious.

QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 19:31) *
Is you son the leasehold owner of the flat? Or is he a tenant?

Worth a read of Jopson. (Not 100% the same but relevant)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Wheels
post Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 19:03
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 168
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Member No.: 50,542



QUOTE (cabbyman @ Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 19:04) *
Is there only a windscreen ticket so far? Has anything been received through the post?

What was the date of the parking event?

Ignore the discounted rate blackmail. With the right approach, you will be paying nothing.



Thank you for your response.
31.08.18 windscreen only

QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 19:31) *
cabbyman is absolutely right - ignore the discounted rate blackmail.

Is you son the leasehold owner of the flat? Or is he a tenant?

If the former, what does his lease say about parking? If the latter, what does his tenancy agreement say about parking?

There will be other things for which you or he needs to search in the appropriate document. To save time, post the whole document in its entirety (after redacting any personal details) and I shall gladly look at it.



Thank you for your response
He is a tenant, has a parking permit, but I haven't seen tenancy, I'll ask him for it?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cabbyman
post Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 19:14
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5,950
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
From: South of John O'Groats, north of Cape Town.
Member No.: 16,066



OK. At day 21/22, appeal AS KEEPER to the PPC. The basic initial appeal that will be refused anyway but it will bring you a POPLA code for a second stage appeal, which we rarely lose, with the right appeal.

The purpose of the timing of the initial appeal is to hope that they use information supplied rather than obtain RK details from DVLA, as required under PoFA. To this end, make a slight error in the name or address in your appeal, eg Greene instead of Green. That will give a good indication of whether they have complied.

READ other threads to get an idea of what your initial appeal should contain and post your draft here for fine tuning.


--------------------
Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eljayjay
post Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 19:33
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 874
Joined: 1 Apr 2017
Member No.: 91,235



Take a look at post #24 in da_tnt's thread which involves the unloading of a heavy and awkward load.

You may not wish to use what is in post #24 in your initial appeal, but it may be useful stuff if your son's case goes beyond the appeal stages.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cabbyman
post Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 19:37
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5,950
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
From: South of John O'Groats, north of Cape Town.
Member No.: 16,066



Going by posts elsewhere is there a disabilities/equalities aspect to this case? I'm not sure how it can be used in an unloading situation; maybe others can come up with some lateral thoughts.

This post has been edited by cabbyman: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 19:38


--------------------
Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Wheels
post Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 19:48
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 168
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Member No.: 50,542



QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 19:35) *
They'll reject any appeal made - that is a fact.

If only a PCN has been issued on the vehicle so far then it's possible to frustrate the keeper liability process by appealing as the keeper around day 21/22.

They are not litigious.

QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 19:31) *
Is you son the leasehold owner of the flat? Or is he a tenant?

Worth a read of Jopson. (Not 100% the same but relevant)


Thank you for your response.

I've read Jopson, but I don't have a good brain, it upheld the appeal, which I think was in favour and would possibly fit this case? Am I right?

W

QUOTE (cabbyman @ Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 20:14) *
OK. At day 21/22, appeal AS KEEPER to the PPC. The basic initial appeal that will be refused anyway but it will bring you a POPLA code for a second stage appeal, which we rarely lose, with the right appeal.

The purpose of the timing of the initial appeal is to hope that they use information supplied rather than obtain RK details from DVLA, as required under PoFA. To this end, make a slight error in the name or address in your appeal, eg Greene instead of Green. That will give a good indication of whether they have complied.

READ other threads to get an idea of what your initial appeal should contain and post your draft here for fine tuning.


Thank you for response.

So do you mean the actual keeper, or the driver to appeal as keeper to see if they checked? I will read and reread as best I can.

W

QUOTE (cabbyman @ Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 20:37) *
Going by posts elsewhere is there a disabilities/equalities aspect to this case? I'm not sure how it can be used in an unloading situation; maybe others can come up with some lateral thoughts.



Thank you for your response.
I was not driving either vehicles or I would have used my blue badge, nor was I present, I'm just trying to clear up the mess, especially as one of the helpers was my friend and doesn't deserve a ticket for coming to help. Actually come to think of it, I wouldn't have, there is no disabled parking bays, but the notice says all have to have permits anyway, which I don't have!
W

This post has been edited by Wheels: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 20:01
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eljayjay
post Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 20:06
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 874
Joined: 1 Apr 2017
Member No.: 91,235



Jopson won at appeal.

As it went to appeal, it was heard by a more senior judge than a District Judge or Deputy District Judge (who hear most parking cases). It does, therefore, carry more weight than most parking case judgements.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cabbyman
post Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 20:12
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5,950
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
From: South of John O'Groats, north of Cape Town.
Member No.: 16,066



The Registered Keeper appeals as the RK, having been 'passed the ticket by the driver.' Even if the driver and RK are one and the same (We DON'T wish to know!), it could be said that the ticket was passed from the driver's right hand to the RK's left hand!

Dear sirs,

ref xxxxx VRN xx99yyy

I am the Registered Keeper of the above vehicle. I have been made aware of a Notice to Driver left on the vehicle.

Please note that I have no liability in this matter due to the lack of prominent signage, as required in accordance with the ruling in Parking Eye v Beavis and the British Parking Association code of practice.

I require you to cancel this forthwith and not to bother me further.

Love and kisses.


It doesn't say much, but may set them up for a PoFA fail. Don't forget to include an insignificant but recognisable change in name or address.

Ideally, the RK who has the ticket should come on here to be guided on the next stage. It needs to be fully understood.



--------------------
Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Wheels
post Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 20:32
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 168
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Member No.: 50,542



QUOTE (cabbyman @ Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 21:12) *
The Registered Keeper appeals as the RK, having been 'passed the ticket by the driver.' Even if the driver and RK are one and the same (We DON'T wish to know!), it could be said that the ticket was passed from the driver's right hand to the RK's left hand!

Dear sirs,

ref xxxxx VRN xx99yyy

I am the Registered Keeper of the above vehicle. I have been made aware of a Notice to Driver left on the vehicle.

Please note that I have no liability in this matter due to the lack of prominent signage, as required in accordance with the ruling in Parking Eye v Beavis and the British Parking Association code of practice.

I require you to cancel this forthwith and not to bother me further.

Love and kisses.


It doesn't say much, but may set them up for a PoFA fail. Don't forget to include an insignificant but recognisable change in name or address.

Ideally, the RK who has the ticket should come on here to be guided on the next stage. It needs to be fully understood.



Thank you for your response & draft letter. I will type up for each of them and try to get them to come on here themselves, but the foreign chap doesn't read well in English, hence why I wanted to help.

So to be clear, no discussion about unloading to help my son move at all at this stage?

W

QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 21:06) *
Jopson won at appeal.

As it went to appeal, it was heard by a more senior judge than a District Judge or Deputy District Judge (who hear most parking cases). It does, therefore, carry more weight than most parking case judgements.


Super I will try to remember that thank you.
W
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Wheels
post Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 22:42
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 168
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Member No.: 50,542



Just a thought: As the address is somewhere near to me should I drop in by hand, with photos of course, send recorded delivery, web form (which I don't like as I won't have a copy & don't know if it will arrive) or email, which is not on their accepted list, but my preference to keep track?
Many thanks
Wheels
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eljayjay
post Mon, 10 Sep 2018 - 23:31
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 874
Joined: 1 Apr 2017
Member No.: 91,235



When sending letters, use first-class mail, hand it in at a Post Office counter and request a free certificate of posting.

Do NOT use signed-for mail as very often parking operators and their solicitors refuse to sign for it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Wheels
post Tue, 11 Sep 2018 - 00:03
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 168
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Member No.: 50,542



QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Tue, 11 Sep 2018 - 00:31) *
When sending letters, use first-class mail, hand it in at a Post Office counter and request a free certificate of posting.

Do NOT use signed-for mail as very often parking operators and their solicitors refuse to sign for it.


Thank you, I didn't know I could do that? 😀
W
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Umkomaas
post Tue, 11 Sep 2018 - 07:23
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,743
Joined: 8 Feb 2013
Member No.: 59,842



You should forward the appeal to the PPC by the method they require as shown on the windscreen ticket. The name and address of the respective registered keepers should be provided. If you go 'off piste' in not following their procedure, can often see them not dealing with the appeal with their 28-day deadline expiring and access to POPLA then denied.

Was the foreign friend driving a UK registered vehicle?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Wheels
post Tue, 11 Sep 2018 - 18:29
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 168
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Member No.: 50,542



QUOTE (Umkomaas @ Tue, 11 Sep 2018 - 08:23) *
You should forward the appeal to the PPC by the method they require as shown on the windscreen ticket. The name and address of the respective registered keepers should be provided. If you go 'off piste' in not following their procedure, can often see them not dealing with the appeal with their 28-day deadline expiring and access to POPLA then denied.

Was the foreign friend driving a UK registered vehicle?


Thank you. I will follow procedure. The friend has his own car here and driving licence etc and is legal to drive in all respects. He brought the wheels to help move the furniture from the van to the flat.

W
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Umkomaas
post Tue, 11 Sep 2018 - 19:32
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,743
Joined: 8 Feb 2013
Member No.: 59,842



QUOTE
The friend has his own car here

Not quite the answer to the question I asked (I don't think?). Let's try again.

Does the foreign friend's vehicle, used on the day, have a UK registration number, or a foreign one?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Wheels
post Tue, 11 Sep 2018 - 20:05
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 168
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Member No.: 50,542



QUOTE (Umkomaas @ Tue, 11 Sep 2018 - 20:32) *
QUOTE
The friend has his own car here

Not quite the answer to the question I asked (I don't think?). Let's try again.

Does the foreign friend's vehicle, used on the day, have a UK registration number, or a foreign one?


Sorry, my head is fried! He has uk reg vehicle
W
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Umkomaas
post Tue, 11 Sep 2018 - 21:24
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,743
Joined: 8 Feb 2013
Member No.: 59,842



QUOTE (Wheels @ Tue, 11 Sep 2018 - 21:05) *
QUOTE (Umkomaas @ Tue, 11 Sep 2018 - 20:32) *
QUOTE
The friend has his own car here

Not quite the answer to the question I asked (I don't think?). Let's try again.

Does the foreign friend's vehicle, used on the day, have a UK registration number, or a foreign one?


Sorry, my head is fried! He has uk reg vehicle
W

OK thanks. I was rather hoping he had a foreign registered vehicle, which would mean the PPC had no access to his details and this case would be just a single one - pity!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

4 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Monday, 19th November 2018 - 12:32
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.