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PCN in Ruislip Lido, Vehicle not authorised to park
Pavy
post Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 14:21
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Hi all

We visited Ruislip Lido (London Borough of Hillingdon) after nearly 1 year to enjoy the weather on a Wednesday evening with our toddler . Only on our return to the car park we realized that the car park is not just free. when checked other cars in the same lane none of them had any parking tickets, so we thought we wouldn't need one. The signs were confusing, it was late to undo anything and no one was around to confirm we left the car park.

A week and half later we received PCN for vehicle parked @ M&B -The Water's Edge- Ruslip, Reservoir Road by remaining at the car park without authorisation.

I am not sure what to do, any ground to challenge?

Appreciate your help.

Thank you!


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This post has been edited by Fredd: Mon, 16 Jul 2018 - 16:56
Reason for edit: Image removed at OP's request
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post Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 14:21
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 10:56
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There is only a single template appeal, on the MSE newbies thread. Howveer you can work out which appeal to use, if there were two different ones, anywa - as you know whether they are BPA or IPC!

THe contract, if any, is with the driver
They have no idea who drove the vehicle.
All the know is the identity of the person KEEPING the vehicle. A different person, legally and potentially in actual real world (after all, if you lease a car the lease company is the RK, but never the driver)
IF you were not the driver, then you state yu were not the driver. If you cannot say this, then you just state the drivers identity will not be revealed
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Pavy
post Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 12:17
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 11:56) *
There is only a single template appeal, on the MSE newbies thread. Howveer you can work out which appeal to use, if there were two different ones, anywa - as you know whether they are BPA or IPC!

THe contract, if any, is with the driver
They have no idea who drove the vehicle.
All the know is the identity of the person KEEPING the vehicle. A different person, legally and potentially in actual real world (after all, if you lease a car the lease company is the RK, but never the driver)
IF you were not the driver, then you state yu were not the driver. If you cannot say this, then you just state the drivers identity will not be revealed



Thank you, I am going to do online appeal today as stated in template and will update this forum posted on whats happening next

This post has been edited by Pavy: Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 12:18
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Pavy
post Thu, 2 Aug 2018 - 09:14
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They rejected my appeal straightway, now asking to pay full PCN amount £85. They have provided the access code for the POPLA, but on what grounds I appeal?
Haven't got the paperwork now, will scan this afternoon.

I didnt mention anything about "The water Edge" pub 's visit or their terrible customer service as I couldn't find the receipt. The rejection letter had smart parking picture of car entering and exiting.

Any non-compliance or any other ground to appeal? Anybody any thoughts/help would be really appreciated

This post has been edited by Pavy: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 - 09:19
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 2 Aug 2018 - 11:51
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What research on POPLA appeals have you found in the last 2 weeks? We knew they would reject.

Theres always a few points, POFA compliance being one.
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Pavy
post Thu, 2 Aug 2018 - 15:38
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Waters Edge car park has an ANPR camera that gets a snapshot of number plate when you drive in.

Apparently, you must give your registration number in at the bar to get up to 2 hours free parking. As said before we had drinks there, but we weren't aware of this, the pub staff were rude and seemed unhelpful. There are many bad reviews on this pub, especially for ripping off its customers on parking charges. The pub claims they are aware of the parking system yet fail to ensure the correct application of the process to ensure PCN is issued.
The manager holds no responsibility on human error, may be another means of making money. If there was a scanning system before leaving the car parking this scam can be stopped

A charge of £85 for a stay of less than 1 hours in a car park is punitive, especially when public car parks at the same location charges standard charge of £5 per day.

Actually the charge of £85 is not on any of the signs visible to a driver entering or parking in the car park, will that make my case void?

QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 2 Aug 2018 - 12:51) *
What research on POPLA appeals have you found in the last 2 weeks? We knew they would reject.

Theres always a few points, POFA compliance being one.


I was actually hoping that they wouldn’t reject. I had few read on POFA, trying to see what could be non-compliance but turst its very hard

This post has been edited by Pavy: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 - 15:38
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Redivi
post Thu, 2 Aug 2018 - 15:58
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Parking companies very rarely accept appeals
They know that the vast majority of people will pay up and never use the POPLA codes

If the signs are as poor as you say, take some photographs and appeal to POPLA
If not, don't bother with the appeal

Euro is a very tame parking company and court action is extremely rare

Unpaid accounts are passed to a debt collector
Debt collectors are annoying but completely safe to ignore

This post has been edited by Redivi: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 - 08:18
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ManxRed
post Fri, 3 Aug 2018 - 07:42
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Thu, 2 Aug 2018 - 16:58) *
Parking companies very rarely reject accept appeals


Fixed that for you! wink.gif


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Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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Redivi
post Fri, 3 Aug 2018 - 08:18
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Corrected

Thank You
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Pavy
post Fri, 3 Aug 2018 - 09:16
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find below the rejection letter along the POPLA Reference Number




I've looked on POPLA appeal and here is what I found for my next stage appeal, please add if anything missed.

POFA non compliance - Paragraph 9,
section 1 and 2 (b)- It doesn't state that me as the keeper can be found liable if I do not know who the driver at that time was or they will recover the costs from the keep. section 2 (f) -No mention or referencing transfer of liability to keep or any reference to POFA

As the keeper of the vehicle, it is my right to choose not to name the driver, but not lawfully held liable if an operator is not using or complying with Schedule 4.

Signage - the signs in this car park are not prominent, clear or legible from all parking spaces and there is insufficient notice of the sum of the parking charge itself

The ANPR System is Neither Reliable nor Accurate -
ANPR system can be used to detect vehicle entry and exit however who determines if the driver of the vehicle is guest of water edge pub. There is no scanning but manual input of registration number in at the bar to get up to 2 hours free parking mean human error. Clearly the pub is known to run the scam of ripping public on parking charges. The manager holds no responsibility on human error. The driver on that day had used waters edge and technically is a guest but pub staff seem to be rude and unhelpful. The pub claims they are aware of the parking system yet fail to ensure the correct application of the process to ensure PCN is issued.


Failure to comply with the data protection 'ICO Code of Practice' applicable to ANPR (no information about SAR rights, no privacy statement, no evaluation to justify that 24/7 ANPR enforcement at this site is justified, fair and proportionate). A serious BPA CoP breach

The signs fail to transparently warn drivers of what the ANPR data will be used for which breaches the BPA Code of Practice and the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 due to inherent failure to indicate the 'commercial intent' of the cameras.

The rejection letters has 2 images with license plate, the time and date stamp were inserted into the images but not part of. The images do not show the vehicle parked in the carpark in not authorized way. Thus I require confirmation of the vehicle parked in not authorized way and hence euro car parks claim was not authorized. I require evidence of the original images containing the required date and time stamp and images showing the car is
actually parked in the location stated rather than simply entering and exiting.

This post has been edited by Pavy: Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 13:44
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Pavy
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 08:41
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Anyone had chance to go through ?
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ManxRed
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 08:59
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I haven't got time, but please take down the POPLA code! Redact this and other personal info and repost again.


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Pavy
post Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 13:45
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QUOTE (ManxRed @ Mon, 6 Aug 2018 - 09:59) *
I haven't got time, but please take down the POPLA code! Redact this and other personal info and repost again.



Did I do it again, I have now edited and posted, appreciate any feedback
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Pavy
post Tue, 7 Aug 2018 - 11:44
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Anyone had chance to look into this?

This post has been edited by Pavy: Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 10:30
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Pavy
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 10:35
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Would appreciate if my appeal could be looked over and get some comments ?
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 11:44
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Have you had a look at other POPLA appeals, that are a couple pages in length?
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Pavy
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 14:22
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As was advised, I sent my initial appeal unaltered and got the POPLA appeal reference.
When I looked for past appeals I had noticed one with extensive 11 points so much in detail
But below 3 points may be applicable to my case but not clear on the context. Can someone advice what does it mean for my appeal?
1) No keeper liability - POFA non-compliant NTK due to failure to adhere to strict wording and guidelines set out in POFA – no mention of POFA at all in NTK
2) The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who may have been potentially liable for the charge.
3) No evidence of landowner authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 15:22
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Your appeal to teh PPC was JUST to get a POPLA code. Nothing more
You can use ANYTHING you wish now in your POPLA appeal
Kitchen sink time. Only one point has to win for you to win.

1 & 2 are necessarily the same point. No keeper liability.

Signage, amount is a hidden term, etc.
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cabbyman
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 19:30
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My ECP Shell Gatwick thread has an example of the type of appeal you need. However, it is over a year old so it should be used with care.Draft your POPLA appeal based on that and post it here for critique.


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Pavy
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 12:28
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 20:30) *
My ECP Shell Gatwick thread has an example of the type of appeal you need. However, it is over a year old so it should be used with care.Draft your POPLA appeal based on that and post it here for critique.



I received similar type PCN, infact the contents are same. PCN Date of event was 20/6/18 and the date issued was 26/6/18.
Read through your appeal on "No keeper liability" and its evident in your case that the NTK is not complaint with POFA 2012 as served late. Looking at my PCN I'm not sure if POFA non-complaint is strong ground to win the POPLA appeal.
The NTK PCN was served within 14 days of the event but didn’t adhere to strict wording.
as per POFA Schedule 4 paragraph 9.2(b) (e) and (f) it doesn’t state the keeper that the driver is liable if unknown the creditor will recover from keeper.
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 13:05
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Thats absolutely crucial. TO omit it means they are not warnign the KEEPER of their ability to recover from them.
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