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"wanton or furious driving",
freddy1
post Thu, 17 Aug 2017 - 18:06
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nice to see laws dating back to 1861 being used

guy on a "racing" push bike mows a woman down , bike has not or never was fitted with a front brake , , in court "He told the court he had had no idea there was a legal requirement for his bike to have a front brake."

sigh ,

The court heard that Brunelle is a stunt cyclist who makes videos in which he rides around cities including London "doing dangerous stuff" such as weaving in and out of traffic.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40960346
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post Thu, 17 Aug 2017 - 18:06
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Richy320
post Thu, 24 Aug 2017 - 07:48
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I hope he gets a fine for riding an unroadworthy bicycle.

The death of a pedestrian was caused by a grown adult stepping out into a road in front of a moving vehicle without looking properly.


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DancingDad
post Thu, 24 Aug 2017 - 09:13
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QUOTE (Richy320 @ Thu, 24 Aug 2017 - 08:48) *
......The death of a pedestrian was caused by a grown adult stepping out into a road in front of a moving vehicle without looking properly.


While we see adults (and kids) so engrossed in their phones that they do not observe proper crossing techniques and simply step out, the consequences are dependent on other factors.
Such as the driver or rider in this case, being aware, driving within safe limits and the vehicle being roadworthy.
I'll give that the rider was aware as he seems to have shouted.
Questionable about whether riding within safe limits
Bike wasn't roadworthy.

Had this been a car with defective brakes, there would be little sympathy for the driver.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 24 Aug 2017 - 10:12
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QUOTE (ford poplar @ Thu, 24 Aug 2017 - 03:14) *
The bike shown did not have nec roadworthy requirements eg lights. mudguards.
No speedo (not req'd).

Neither lights (when its light) or mudguards are required to be roadworthy.....why on earth do you think either are required?

Speed was calculated from the CCTV of the incident.


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mickR
post Mon, 28 Aug 2017 - 20:05
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QUOTE (Richy320 @ Thu, 24 Aug 2017 - 08:48) *
The death of a pedestrian was caused by a grown adult stepping out into a road in front of a moving vehicle without looking properly.
... and by a #### (insert appropriate adjective) on an illegal moving vehicle, a bike, with one type of brake and a verbal warning of approach ie "get the f#ck outta my way"

There..fixed that for ya.

Let's hope the poor woman's husbands campaign to toughen up on the irresponsible riders has positive effect.

Btw your signature is eerily appropriate huh.gif

This post has been edited by mickR: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 - 20:07
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southpaw82
post Mon, 28 Aug 2017 - 21:03
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QUOTE (Richy320 @ Thu, 24 Aug 2017 - 08:48) *
I hope he gets a fine for riding an unroadworthy bicycle.


Unlikely, since he's not charged with such an offence.

QUOTE
The death of a pedestrian was caused by a grown adult stepping out into a road in front of a moving vehicle without looking properly.

The jury apparently disagreed.


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The Rookie
post Tue, 29 Aug 2017 - 06:31
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Did they disagree, or decide that both were culpable?

Both were at fault it seems to me, although as always we are unlikely to have access to the same level of information that the Jury did, in fact I've yet to even be sure exactly where the collision occurred.


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southpaw82
post Tue, 29 Aug 2017 - 10:57
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 29 Aug 2017 - 07:31) *
Did they disagree, or decide that both were culpable?

They found that the pedestrian was not the sole cause of the accident, otherwise they could not have convicted of the offence.


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The Rookie
post Tue, 29 Aug 2017 - 14:57
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Which was my point!


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southpaw82
post Tue, 29 Aug 2017 - 16:32
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 29 Aug 2017 - 15:57) *
Which was my point!

Yes, you may have 10 shiny pedant points, redeemable nowhere.


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soggi
post Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 19:40
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https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bik...-driving-charge
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Churchmouse
post Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 20:14
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 29 Aug 2017 - 15:57) *
Which was my point!

Well, no, they didn't necessarily have to find her at fault at all in order to convict him. (I'll have those 10 pedant points, thank you...)

It seems fairly clear to me that Mr. Alliston was primarily convicted for being an a-hole. Based on public information, I can't say I really disagree that much.

--Churchmouse
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Tancred
post Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 21:26
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QUOTE (soggi @ Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 20:40) *


I don't find that article very convincing, unfortunately the CCTV hasn't been released publicly but a front brake would have substantially reduced the braking distance and what that article seems to forget is that even if he'd still hit the pedestrian after using a front brake, the speed would have been hugely reduced and likely not ended in a fatality. At a lower speed (the claims are the cyclist only slowed to around 11mph) he'd also have been able to take a more evasive swerve. I don't agree about quick steering being preferable to braking either, I found very quickly when cycling in town that people don't look round and will step right in front of the bike as they don't hear it so it's important to be riding in a way that expects any pedestrian to suddenly step out so they have room or you can quickly slow down. 18mph on a bike with no proper braking system (I know the fixed wheel counts as a braking system but it's not much compared to a proper one) doesn't seem at all cautious to me, I do a lot of riding through town on a quick road bike and that's a decent speed on a bike and I very much like my hydraulic discs.

I don't agree about a driver would get away with it either, looking at the case legally rather than literally if the pedestrian stepped out in front of a driver and the driver killed the pedestrian even though they had sufficient space to slow down I'd have thought there would be a good chance of a death by careless driving or similar.

I do think in general it's been blown out of proportion bearing in mind the much larger numbers of fatalities involving motor vehicles.
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The Rookie
post Sat, 2 Sep 2017 - 06:17
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QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 21:14) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 29 Aug 2017 - 15:57) *
Which was my point!

Well, no, they didn't necessarily have to find her at fault at all in order to convict him. (I'll have those 10 pedant points, thank you...)

It seems fairly clear to me that Mr. Alliston was primarily convicted for being an a-hole. Based on public information, I can't say I really disagree that much.

--Churchmouse

Erm, of course they didn't have to find her at fault at all to convict him, I don't think that warrants pedant points, she could have been 75% to blame and him still have commited the offence which he commited.

This stemmed from the comment that the death was caused by the pedestrian stepping out in front of the bike if you recall.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Sat, 2 Sep 2017 - 06:29


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mickR
post Sat, 2 Sep 2017 - 09:32
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I took the finding to suggest that even if she did step Into the road, a cyclist riding sensibly on a bike with brakes would in all probability not have hit her Which to me puts the onus 100% on the rider.
It is stated he had time to shout not once but twice to get out the way so plenty of reaction time to apply his brakes and put it on a stand.
His attitude (as reprted) both at the scene and on social media paints a very good pictire of the a hole that he clealy is. Let's hope the system doesn't fail the family and that the sentence also sends a clear warning to the many maniacs that think they are above the law.
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The Rookie
post Sat, 2 Sep 2017 - 15:09
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He was said to have shouted twice, but also she stepped off the pavement 6m in front of him doing 18mph (so just less than a second away) which seems contradictory.

The point is of course that he would almost certainly have been guilty (though unlikely to have been charged) of the offence whether he struck her or not, so she could have been deemed wholly responsible for the accident by the Jury and him still be found guilty (does that get me extra pedant points?).

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Mon, 4 Sep 2017 - 10:24


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DancingDad
post Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 12:04
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18 months jail time
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-41306738

Surprised over custodial sentence considering the manslaughter charge didn't stick.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 15:56
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Up to two years can be given for the wanton or furious.

Judges comments seem to suggest he wasn't overly enamoured of Alliston's attitude and there was even a suggestion he'd lied under oath.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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ford poplar
post Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 16:29
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18 months in a YOI, hardly the 'Big House'.
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southpaw82
post Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 17:58
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Custodial sentence absolutely called for.


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Richy320
post Thu, 21 Sep 2017 - 07:00
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An alternative view from a QC

Alliston prosecution

It was a witch hunt against a cyclist for a minor infraction that had had tragic consequences.

This post has been edited by Richy320: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 - 07:04


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