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Ticket on Suspended residents Bay, Help requested please
WillW
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 15:26
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Hi,

I just parked for about 15 minutes while going inside my home to collect something and hadn't realised the resident's bay had been suspended.

Got back to my car to find a ticket on the windscreen.

Photos of the suspension sign and the bay I was parked in are attached. I was parked to the left of the Pay and Display sign which is a residents bay.

I would appreciate any thoughts on this. I noticed the suspension sign does not appear to carry a reason for the suspension (they usually do) and also that the bay end markings are single rather than double although I'm not sure if either of these are relevant.

Many thanks
WW






This post has been edited by WillW: Thu, 17 May 2018 - 15:28
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post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 15:26
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WillW
post Tue, 29 May 2018 - 13:46
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Hi, I've received the attached refusal from the council. I appealed on the basis of not seeing the sign as it was 30 meters away and the van parked in the bay obscured my diagonal view. Also that my car was only there for 10mins and 2 of the 3 suspended bays were empty so had no real impact.

Any thoughts on this are much appreciated or is it pretty much a done deal?

Many thanks





This post has been edited by WillW: Tue, 29 May 2018 - 13:50
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hcandersen
post Tue, 29 May 2018 - 14:28
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These threads tend to be 99% narrative and 1% quantified data.

Can I see if I can reverse this:

The suspended area extended from no. 16 to no. 12, a distance of ** metres ( OP pl insert);
There was a single suspension sign placed on a post o/s no 20 which is ** metres from the beginning of the suspended area;
The OP parked o/s no. 12, *** metres from the end ofthe bay;
According to the council, the sign was erected on 8 May, 8 days before the suspension came into effect;
The OP has told us that they live in the road, whether on the same side or not, we don't know, but if so (implicity) at a higher number than 20 ( the alternative is that they are blind because the big yellow sign was o/s no.20;
The OP told us that they had not seen this sign.

Is there any other evidence?

IMO, if the authority are correct then adequacy of notice as regards giving warning of the suspension is established.

But IMO this leaves the issue of why only one sign?

OP, I suggest you write back to the council, thank them for their letter and add that in order to help you decide what action to take would they please explain why they only erected a single suspension sign.

I think they'll say, if they reply at all and if they don't you would have to infer from their letter, that there was only one sign in this length of the parking place. In which case, if you were minded to continue - and providing the distances which you will insert above support this- then you could make reps on the grounds that the contravention did not occur because inadequate signage was displayed. Contrary to their implied claim, it is IRRELEVANT, that there was only one post with a Res Permit Holder traffic sign, they could and should have erected a sign on the one at the join of the two parking places.
What could be their defence?
It's not in the suspended area.
Neither was the one they did erect!

The post(and it's only the post which is important - practicality v legal requirements) was there. Simply put a sign on it. But of course they'd have to rehash it to read 'arrow to left, blurb ... no.10 to no.16...).

Had they done so, then an adj IMO would conclude that in all probability the driver would have seen a big yellow sign practically on the end of their nose, as opposed to being asked to observe one **** metres away.



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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 29 May 2018 - 14:35
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I see where hca is coming from but the re-offered discount looks attractive too.

Mick
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WillW
post Tue, 29 May 2018 - 15:02
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Tue, 29 May 2018 - 15:28) *
These threads tend to be 99% narrative and 1% quantified data.

Can I see if I can reverse this:

The suspended area extended from no. 16 to no. 12, a distance of ** metres ( OP pl insert);
There was a single suspension sign placed on a post o/s no 20 which is ** metres from the beginning of the suspended area;
The OP parked o/s no. 12, *** metres from the end ofthe bay;
According to the council, the sign was erected on 8 May, 8 days before the suspension came into effect;
The OP has told us that they live in the road, whether on the same side or not, we don't know, but if so (implicity) at a higher number than 20 ( the alternative is that they are blind because the big yellow sign was o/s no.20;
The OP told us that they had not seen this sign.

Is there any other evidence?

IMO, if the authority are correct then adequacy of notice as regards giving warning of the suspension is established.

But IMO this leaves the issue of why only one sign?

OP, I suggest you write back to the council, thank them for their letter and add that in order to help you decide what action to take would they please explain why they only erected a single suspension sign.

I think they'll say, if they reply at all and if they don't you would have to infer from their letter, that there was only one sign in this length of the parking place. In which case, if you were minded to continue - and providing the distances which you will insert above support this- then you could make reps on the grounds that the contravention did not occur because inadequate signage was displayed. Contrary to their implied claim, it is IRRELEVANT, that there was only one post with a Res Permit Holder traffic sign, they could and should have erected a sign on the one at the join of the two parking places.
What could be their defence?
It's not in the suspended area.
Neither was the one they did erect!

The post(and it's only the post which is important - practicality v legal requirements) was there. Simply put a sign on it. But of course they'd have to rehash it to read 'arrow to left, blurb ... no.10 to no.16...).

Had they done so, then an adj IMO would conclude that in all probability the driver would have seen a big yellow sign practically on the end of their nose, as opposed to being asked to observe one **** metres away.


Many thanks HCA, apologies if I've not included all the data clearly and I do really appreciate all the help.

The refusal letter does state 'One suspension sign was posted' which based on my knowledge is what RBKC always does - I rarely see multiple signs unless there are multiple 'posts' worth of suspensded bays. I would have seen the sign if it had been posted at the post joining the two parking places.

I'll give it some thought but really don't want to end up with the full penalty.
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hcandersen
post Tue, 29 May 2018 - 15:57
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'..on the nearest available and relevant res permit holder/pay and display...'


No they didn't, they put it on the next nearest: the nearest was the one ahead.

It is a total invention of theirs that they're limited to the sign they used.

But it's your choice.
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