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2 week nip query
Football2018
post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 19:17
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Evening all,

One of my close friends thinks he may have been caught speeding on sunday the 1st of July, he is the registered keeper of the car so if he is to be prosecuted he needs to recieve an nip by this coming sunday, correct?

The only thing that may confuse the issue is that at the time of the alleged offence the vehicle he was driving had a personal plate on it, for an entirely seperate reason, on monday the 9th he removed the personal plate and reverted the car to its original plate, the vehicle is still in his name, as is the personal plate, will this cause any issue with regards to the 2 week rule of NIP's?

Lastly, ive read stories where people dont recieve nips and just recieve a court summons a few months after the alleged offence, generally when the speed is grossly over the limit. Is this legal and would it hold up in court or does an nip need to be served within 2 weeks regardless of speed providing the vehicle is registered to the correct person.

Thanks for reading and your opinions on the matter!
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post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 19:17
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Jlc
post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 19:29
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Upon the detection of an alleged offence the Police will access the DVLA (via the PNC) to send a NIP - they don't know who was driving...

Only the 1st NIP has to arrive within 14 days - but there are certain exclusions. But if the plate on the car at the time links to his address then he will receive a NIP if caught.

'Excessive' speed doesn't change the process. (But will not see an offer of a course/fixed penalty and can only be dealt with at court after the driver is identified)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 19:30


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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peterguk
post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 19:34
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QUOTE (Football2018 @ Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 20:17) *
ive read stories where people dont recieve nips and just recieve a court summons a few months after the alleged offence, generally when the speed is grossly over the limit. Is this legal and would it hold up in court or does an nip need to be served within 2 weeks regardless of speed providing the vehicle is registered to the correct person.


The police will most likely produce evidence the NIP was correctly posted. If they do, then the burden falls onto the defendant to convince the court it did not arrive in time or not at all. If the defendant succeeds in convincing the court, the speeding prosecution should fail.

The actual excess over the limit is totally irrelevant to proceedings.


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Football2018
post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 20:21
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 19:29) *
Upon the detection of an alleged offence the Police will access the DVLA (via the PNC) to send a NIP - they don't know who was driving...

Only the 1st NIP has to arrive within 14 days - but there are certain exclusions. But if the plate on the car at the time links to his address then he will receive a NIP if caught.

'Excessive' speed doesn't change the process. (But will not see an offer of a course/fixed penalty and can only be dealt with at court after the driver is identified)


Thanks for the reply,

If the police had a backlog and hadnt accessed the dvla until for example today then the personal plate would lead nowhere, if this was the case how would they proceed?

Or as part of it, like you say in the second paragraph, would they have the abillity to see what car had that particular plate on at the time of the alleged offence?

I guess the point bieng does it search in retrospect at the time of the offence or in the present?

Thabks for the answers both and for clearing up the second point.
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peterguk
post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 20:32
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The police are quite clever and have plenty of resources available to them. Previous RK details will be simples.


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Football2018
post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 20:46
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Thanks for the clarification that seems a reasonable assumption.

I guess the only other question is that if indeed the nip dosent arrive in time and then a week or so later he recieves it and its dated within the 2 week window, how does he prove he recieved it late? In essence its proving a negative? I cant imagine their posted recorded delivery?

Cheers!
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Jlc
post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 20:50
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Read the link in Peter's signature...

If a NIP is correctly addressed and posted in time then it will be presumed delivered 2 working days later. They don't generally use any tracked or signature-based delivery.

Just a cautionary point - has the insurer been made aware of the plate changes?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Football2018
post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 21:15
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Thanks, will fwd him the link.

Just asked him, he hasnt told his insurance as yet because the reason for removing the original plate is because he has a new plate to go on, but he cant assign the new plate untill he recieves the updated v5 and reference number. As such he hasnt told his insurance because he dosent want to pay the admin fee twice. In the meantime his car is obviously off the road, infact its parked up in a private garage.
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notmeatloaf
post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 21:47
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If your friend wanted to be certain he could call the camera office on Monday morning (obviously not before) and ask them to check the private plate. Much as the police are generally efficient they receive data from the DVLA, who are experts at being useless.

If he has fallen through a hole in the system then it avoids potentially being unaware of court proceedings. It could in theory interfere with a S172 defence if police claim the contact was their first chance to ascertain details of the registered keeper. But we're talking 0.1% type chances here.
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Football2018
post Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 07:13
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But if he had fallen through a hole in the system, wouldnt that be the polices fault, as far as i can read about nips it just says 'served to the registered keeper of the vehicle within 2 weeks', and he has never lapsed as the registered keeper and it would be over 2 weeks so surely any court proceedings would be null and void?

The same with defending an s172, if he hasnt recieved the nip within 2 weeks legaly he has no obligation to tell them who was driving, is that correct?

Thanks
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Jlc
post Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 07:33
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QUOTE (Football2018 @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 08:13) *
But if he had fallen through a hole in the system, wouldnt that be the polices fault, as far as i can read about nips it just says 'served to the registered keeper of the vehicle within 2 weeks', and he has never lapsed as the registered keeper and it would be over 2 weeks so surely any court proceedings would be null and void?

Yeah, all the BiB's fault... dry.gif Proceedings are rarely 'null and void' - the defendant may have a defence though.

As I said previously, there are certain exceptions - read s2 RTOA 1988, particularly paragraph 3.

QUOTE (Football2018 @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 08:13) *
The same with defending an s172, if he hasnt recieved the nip within 2 weeks legaly he has no obligation to tell them who was driving, is that correct?

No, that is not correct. A s172 can be served at any point, even with a 'late' NIP.

This is all very hypothetical at the moment though...

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 07:32


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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666
post Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 07:48
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QUOTE (Football2018 @ Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 22:15) *
Thanks, will fwd him the link.

Just asked him, he hasnt told his insurance as yet because the reason for removing the original plate is because he has a new plate to go on, but he cant assign the new plate untill he recieves the updated v5 and reference number. As such he hasnt told his insurance because he dosent want to pay the admin fee twice. In the meantime his car is obviously off the road, infact its parked up in a private garage.


FWIW it is an offence not to display the correct plate, even in a locked garage.
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StationCat
post Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 11:13
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I think I am reading this right, that your friend just put the private plate on the car without going through the proper DVLA procedure? And then took it off again? Presumably the private plate is on retention to him? If so, the police could trace him that way and send out the NIP/172. Another method would be through the insurance for the vehicle. If the paperwork is late because the vehicle was displaying the wrong registration plate then I do not think that would prevent a prosecution.


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"Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things" - Isaac Newton
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NewJudge
post Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 12:05
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QUOTE (StationCat @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 12:13) *
Another method would be through the insurance for the vehicle.

How would they do that if the vehicle was displaying an incorrect Reg No?
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Football2018
post Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 12:20
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QUOTE (StationCat @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 11:13) *
I think I am reading this right, that your friend just put the private plate on the car without going through the proper DVLA procedure? And then took it off again? Presumably the private plate is on retention to him? If so, the police could trace him that way and send out the NIP/172. Another method would be through the insurance for the vehicle. If the paperwork is late because the vehicle was displaying the wrong registration plate then I do not think that would prevent a prosecution.


Sorry, no ive missled you there, essentially, he bought the car with a private plate on the vehicle, swapped it over to his ownership so he has a v5 in his name with the private plate all legitimate, that is as it was when the alleged offence happened. Then circa a week after he may have been speeding he removed the plate the legitimate way, so now the original private plate is on retention registered to him, in the future he is going to fit his own private plate to the vehicle when he recieves the updated v5 with the reg as the car was sold to the first owner. I hope that makes sense! All the changing of plates is legitimate and its only been driven on the correct plate for insurance and the dvla, im simply asking if the legitimate changing of plates on the vehicle within the 2 week limit would hurt his defence if it came to it that the nip arrives late. Either way we arent at two weeks yet and this is all hypothetical, ill keep you guys in the loop!

Sorry for the confusion.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 12:51
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The changing of the plates MAY give the police a 'reasonable diligence' get out on complying with the 14 days but if it was all done online is unlikely.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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