Court Summons Speeding and S172 |
Court Summons Speeding and S172 |
Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 08:30
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 13 Jul 2018 Member No.: 98,862 |
Good morning all,
On 14th February this year I was caught by a mobile camera van doing 82mph on a 70mph dual carriage way. The weather conditions were atrocious with driving rain and poor visibility so I was concentrating on the road rather than the speedo. I received the NIP 8 days later and filled it in accordingly. Unfortunately, the NIP was overlooked and not posted back until the 9th April. On the 13th April I received a reminder that I had not returned the NIP but thinking the letters had probably crossed in the post, took no further action. To be honest, I'd forgotten all about it until this morning when I have received a single justice procedure notice intending to prosecute me for both the speeding offence and S172. Can anyone please advise on this and where do I stand with regards to fighting my case? Thanks in advance John |
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Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 08:30
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Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 08:36
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Your best bet is to do a 'plea bargain' where you plead guilty to the speeding on the condition they drop the more onerous S172.
To do this you plead NOT GUILTY to both charges on the SJPN so that the case is transferred to a proper court where you can attend to discuss the deal with the prosecutor in advance of the hearing. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 09:05
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,547 Joined: 17 May 2010 Member No.: 37,614 |
The weather conditions were atrocious with driving rain and poor visibility I wouldn't mention that in any mitigation if I were you .... You don't appear to have any real defence to the s172 offence, which carries heavy penalties, so you really need to do the plea bargain as recommended above. |
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Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 09:12
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,508 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Out of interest was the late nomination complete, unequivocal and signed? Do you have any record of it and any proof of posting?
The 'plea bargain' is likely to be the way forward but I doubt you'll be able to argue a fixed penalty equivalent sentence so you're looking at a day at court, 4 points, a fine around 33% of weekly earnings, costs of £85 and a surcharge of 10% of the fine (min £30). -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 11:29
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#5
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 13 Jul 2018 Member No.: 98,862 |
The NIP was correctly completed and returned using first class post. Unfortunately, I have no record of postage, naively thinking I wouldn't need it. So it looks like I'm stuffed through no fault of my own.
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Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 11:31
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Well no, you will just be penalised for speeding which was your fault! (caveat, it will probably cost you a little more)
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 11:32
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
The NIP was correctly completed and returned outside of the statutory time limit using first class post. Unfortunately, I have no record of postage, naively thinking I wouldn't need it. So it looks like I'm stuffed through no fault of my own. Important omission in bold. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 11:38
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Indeed, two contributory actions, one returning the nomination late and two was assuming they had crossed in the post and not checking (which we ALWAYS advice people do), no fault of my own isn't quite accurate, not wholly your fault but......
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 15:32
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#9
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 13 Jul 2018 Member No.: 98,862 |
Thanks for the input guys, so if I'm successful in plea bargaining and the S172 bit gets dropped what can I expect points and fine wise?
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Sat, 14 Jul 2018 - 15:40
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,508 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
You could try asking for a fixed penalty equivalent but that doesn’t sit well in the circumstances.
Otherwise, a fine around 66% of weekly earnings, costs of £85 and surcharge of 10% of the fine (min £30). -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 07:49
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 272 Joined: 19 Aug 2016 Member No.: 86,499 |
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Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 08:00
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,508 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Indeed, and actually it’s 33% fine too...
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 12:14
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#13
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 13 Jul 2018 Member No.: 98,862 |
Had my day in court yesterday and it wasn't as bad as I imagined it would be.
Arrived early to find another case was overrunning so asked the usher if I could speak to the Prosecutor before I went in. When he came out I advised him I would be willing to change my plea for the speeding charge if he was willing to drop the S172 charge. [/left][left] He said no problem and would update the Judges on my decision. When I went in and the charges were read out the Judge asked if I had any mitigating reasons for exceeding the speed limit, I told him I didn't and it was my own fault for being foolish and offered my apologies for all the trouble it had caused. In summing up he fined me £100 plus Prosecutor's fee of £85 and a Surcharge of £35 and of course 3 more lovely points. Driving like a saint from now on!! |
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Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 13:55
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Decent result, seems to have applied the fixed penalty tariff without being asked.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 14:58
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,746 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
Decent result, seems to have applied the fixed penalty tariff without being asked. Albeit with costs and Victim Surcharge added, probably because of this: "Unfortunately, the NIP was overlooked and not posted back until the 9th April." (though quite how the £35 was calculated is anybody's guess. It should have been £30). This post has been edited by NewJudge: Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 15:01 |
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Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 16:47
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Victim surcharge has to be added, some courts reduce the fine to offset it, others do not, think we’ve discussed that before.
But yes he has the costs. Still better (probably) than an income related fine. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 18:05
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Victim surcharge has to be added, some courts reduce the fine to offset it, others do not, think we’ve discussed that before. Don’t think that was NJ’s point. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Sat, 22 Sep 2018 - 18:18
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,508 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
10% of the fine, min £30. Perhaps they added £5 on to round up the total...
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 10:04
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,140 Joined: 19 Jun 2004 From: Surrey Member No.: 1,326 |
A good result. It's good that you came back and updated your post with the outcome.
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