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PCN - Waiting in bus stop, Dropped off disabled person. Added in latest: Damaged singage
Simon-
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 13:12
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Hello All, I've been aware of the forum for a while, never thought I'd have to use it!

Just got this PCN today, contravention allegedly on the 16th May, issued/posted 22nd May.

I was dropping off my disabled other half off at Halifax, waiting while it was clear, ready to circle the block if a bus needed the space. Unfortunately she has not got a blue badge (family circumstances put her off) so proving that could be awkward.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.9264721,-...3312!8i6656

I need to double check if the No Waiting sign is still there, it's not obvious in the PCN if it is. My other query is about the "The alleged contravention was noted by 01"

Opinions welcome.

Many thanks PePiPoo members.

Simon





This post has been edited by Simon-: Thu, 24 May 2018 - 19:19
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post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 13:12
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stamfordman
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 13:50
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Long road vague location - where is this on google street view.

01 is probably just a code for a workstation or suchlike and won't make the PCN non-compliant I expect.

What are the times on the pics. maybe better pics on council site.
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peterguk
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 14:01
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QUOTE (Simon- @ Wed, 23 May 2018 - 14:12) *
I need to double check if the No Waiting sign is still there


I doubt very much it is a "No Waiting" sign. It is much more likely to be a "No Stopping" sign, which, together with the thick yellow lie is your problem.


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DastardlyDick
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 14:46
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The Council photo's look like they're taken from a vehicle - surely they're not allowed to use "spy cars" or CCTV for Parking Enforcement?
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stamfordman
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 14:56
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QUOTE (DastardlyDick @ Wed, 23 May 2018 - 15:46) *
The Council photo's look like they're taken from a vehicle - surely they're not allowed to use "spy cars" or CCTV for Parking Enforcement?



They can for stopping in:

a bus lane;
a bus stop clearway or bus stand clearway;
a Keep Clear zig-zag area outside schools; or
a red route.

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Simon-
post Thu, 24 May 2018 - 19:14
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Thanks for the input so far.

So what happens if the No Stopping signage is in disrepair/broken?...

I didn't think I'd seen any when I pulled up - I returned to the location of the alleged offence and the sign (where the red arrow points) has been bent around the pole and is facing the pavement.

(The blacked out car is a police car responding to some sort of incident, the pink hue on the road is where I pulled up on the alleged offence.)

Does this change anything?

For reference the GSV was https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.9264721,-...3312!8i6656

Simon



This post has been edited by Simon-: Thu, 24 May 2018 - 19:16
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 24 May 2018 - 19:37
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Get a clear pic of the sign. Coupled with the video evidence that might give you an argument


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DancingDad
post Thu, 24 May 2018 - 23:47
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Strictly speaking the no stopping sign should be present and clear.
Trouble is I can just hear an adjudicator deciding that the overall signage is substantially compliant despite it being damaged.
Personally I would challenge with mitigation asking for discretion, within the 21 days to preserve discount.
Then take a view against the reply.

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Simon-
post Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 09:50
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As a follow up I used the online representation portal that Southampton City Council offered which featured being able to upload supporting evidence (the picture in my last post), adding suitable wording around "I didn't see a No Stopping sign", "after revisiting the scene on receiving the PCN the sign appears to be damaged and pointing the pavement" and "the sign not being visible from the road and not being able to know you've contravened until you have done so would appear to be unlawful/without precedent" and they've agreed to withdraw the PCN! biggrin.gif

They did take a moment to sternly note that one should avoid stopping in bus stops even without seeing the signage as they are frequently No Stopping zones therefore it'll prevent receiving other automated PCNs (rightly or wrongly...). One hopes they're only scanning bus stops with No Stopping demarcations but it sounds like you can't be too careful.

Hopefully this helps someone else in the future.

Stay safe out there. Thanks PePiPoo!
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Incandescent
post Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 18:13
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Well done.
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