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[NIP Wizard] NIP eventually turned up after going to Lease Co/Hire Co/Hirer/Driver
Pops Popper
post Fri, 18 Mar 2016 - 18:38
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - November 2015
Date of the NIP: - 108 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 110 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A45 London Rd WB Ryton Bridge,Ryton-on-Dunsmore. United Kingdom
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Driver of vehicle hired by ex-wife
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I exceeded the said speed limit travelling at 59 mph in a 50 mph zone,and was caught by speed camera.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - No
As you were not responsible for the vehicle, somebody else has named you as the driver. Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 18:38:15 +0000
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post Fri, 18 Mar 2016 - 18:38
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peterguk
post Fri, 18 Mar 2016 - 19:06
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Any questions?

I suggest you return the S.172 pronto, as there is often a limit of 4 months for completion of SACs.


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Pops Popper
post Tue, 22 Mar 2016 - 11:12
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OK thanks Peter,not sure what any course of action of defence would be for this as I'm only clued up on PCN's I'm afraid.
Only thing I can ask at this moment is do I have a chance of defending this thing?
Ta.
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Jlc
post Tue, 22 Mar 2016 - 11:19
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QUOTE (Pops Popper @ Tue, 22 Mar 2016 - 11:12) *
Only thing I can ask at this moment is do I have a chance of defending this thing?

3 possible elements of a defence:

1. The signage is defective or traffic order - basically the limit is different (and the limit wasn't exceeded)
2. The car was not travelling at the alleged speed
3. There's an 'procedural error' in the paperwork (e.g. 1st NIP delivered after 14 days from the offence)

Chances? Probably slim to none unless you know something we don't?

As already noted, respond to the driver (s172) request as failure to do so would be a slum dunk offence carrying 6 points and large fine.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Pops Popper
post Tue, 22 Mar 2016 - 12:55
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OK thanks for the reality check :-)
Anywhere I can find information that will help me to spot a procedural impropriety in the paperwork at all?
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peterguk
post Tue, 22 Mar 2016 - 13:00
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QUOTE (Pops Popper @ Tue, 22 Mar 2016 - 12:55) *
OK thanks for the reality check :-)
Anywhere I can find information that will help me to spot a procedural impropriety in the paperwork at all?


Assuming the first NIP arrived within 14 days, and the NIPs contain a specfic location and mention of the offence, i doubt you'll find any issues.


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Pops Popper
post Tue, 22 Mar 2016 - 13:01
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OK,looks like done and dusted here,I'm going on a course then lol.....
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Jlc
post Tue, 22 Mar 2016 - 13:05
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QUOTE (Pops Popper @ Tue, 22 Mar 2016 - 13:01) *
OK,looks like done and dusted here,I'm going on a course then lol.....

Probably but a course may not be an option given the timing. There's around 4 month cut-off which you may not meet. (So would be 3 points £100).


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Pops Popper
post Tue, 22 Mar 2016 - 13:20
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They sent me the SAC paperwork so it's a 100 miles away so trying to maybe negotiate a closer centre would be my best option I guess.
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Jlc
post Tue, 22 Mar 2016 - 13:25
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You should be able to sit a local course as part of national scheme.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 22 Mar 2016 - 14:57
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For info that limit is about as well signed as it can be, to be honest you almost certainly knew you were in a 50 limit (and realistically if you missed the signs should probably see an optician pronto.... if you can find one....)


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Pops Popper
post Wed, 23 Mar 2016 - 11:21
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Thanks gents,will be biting the bullet!
Will try to find a closer centre.
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Pops Popper
post Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 10:04
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Well,after some time Warwickshire Police have sent me an ultimatum-pay £100 fine and three points to be put on my licence,not a sniff of a speed awareness court at all!
I have seven days to reply,anyone with any suggestions how to open a defence at this point in the proceedings?
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The Rookie
post Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 10:17
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Defence based on what?

Even if you have a defence you'll be presenting it in court absent a really compelling issue the Police will consider.

What happened to the SAC?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 10:23
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You got sent SAC info in post 9. What happened to it?

Do you have a defence?
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AntonyMMM
post Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 10:34
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If you didn't take up the SAC offer, then the £100 & 3pts is the best it is going to get.
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andy_foster
post Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 11:28
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QUOTE (Pops Popper @ Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 11:04) *
I have seven days to reply,anyone with any suggestions how to open a defence at this point in the proceedings?


On the ordinary meaning of the words, to the extent that they can be said to have a specific meaning, you cannot "open a defence" at this point. If you want to defend the allegation, you ignore or reject the offer of a fixed penalty and wait for them to take you to court.


--------------------
Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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Jlc
post Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 11:51
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Indeed, but I hope you're not thinking the lack of (local?) awareness course offer forms any defence?

This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 11:52


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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squaredeal
post Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 16:58
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 11:51) *
Indeed, but I hope you're not thinking the lack of (local?) awareness course offer forms any defence?

Especially as the original course offer would have made it quite clear that as part of the National scheme you could have attended almost anywhere in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
Looks like that boat has sailed due to your inaction. If they have given you 7 days to pay and submit your driving licence they have probably got a finger poised over the 'prosecute' button waiting for the allowed week to elapse. Only if both payment and endorsement has occurred and the notice is closed can a prosecution no longer be initiated.
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Pops Popper
post Fri, 15 Apr 2016 - 17:29
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Sorry,on the original NIP it gave an SAC course as an option regarding how the offence could be dealt with after I sent back the paperwork.
They didn't give me the chance to do a course,they just want to hit me with a fine and three penalty points.
Thought that was a bit harsh! So now I guess I have to start looking at some kind of defence or follow-up.
Any suggestions?
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