TFL red route PCN, Loading/unloading bay PCN |
TFL red route PCN, Loading/unloading bay PCN |
Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 14:32
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 7 Nov 2009 Member No.: 33,504 |
I’ve recently received a PCN in the post from TFL. I’ll attach the pics of it.
I stopped to unload dogs that I had driven to collect from various houses to take back to my dog grooming business that is situated next to the red route bay so that they can be groomed. I also then loaded other dogs on to the van so that they could be taken to a local park to be walked. I was loading and unloading for about 6 or 7 minutes max. After receiving the PCN I called TFL to request the video footage which I’ve just received and it clearly shows me loading and unloading the dogs. The TFL telephone operator said to me that they don’t class the loading and unloading of dogs as loading and unloading?? On the second pic of the PCN it shows the van that pulled into the bay before me but doesn’t show my van? Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks Here’s a link to the video. https://youtu.be/-xgjlWlB3Hs This post has been edited by 8lamps8: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 15:24 |
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Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 14:32
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Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 14:36
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
The TFL telephone operator said to me that they don’t class the loading and unloading of dogs as loading and unloading?? LOL. They are barking mad. Looks like you have solid business case here as I assume you have company collateral to show. Otherwise I can think of some dog loads they really won't like. Use a pic site such as https://imgbb.com and post the BBCode links. Post the video on Youtube. I'm sure we'd all like to see this. This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 14:39 |
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Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 14:43
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
The dogs must jump out of the window as you drive past : Seriously though, it might not be that simple, loading/unloading is need not convenience, and the dogs can walk, so how far to a legitimate stopping place.
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 14:56
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 7 Nov 2009 Member No.: 33,504 |
The dogs must jump out of the window as you drive past : Seriously though, it might not be that simple, loading/unloading is need not convenience, and the dogs can walk, so how far to a legitimate stopping place. The problem is the two nearest 1 hour bays that I would normally park in I had already used earlier so couldn’t return to them! |
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Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 14:58
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
The dogs must jump out of the window as you drive past : Seriously though, it might not be that simple, loading/unloading is need not convenience, and the dogs can walk, so how far to a legitimate stopping place. The problem is the two nearest 1 hour bays that I would normally park in I had already used earlier so couldn’t return to them! Ah - that's maybe a spaniel in the works. I hope not. It would be very mean to enforce this. The fact you're running a business should be a winner in my view. This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 14:59 |
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Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 15:25
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 7 Nov 2009 Member No.: 33,504 |
The TFL telephone operator said to me that they don’t class the loading and unloading of dogs as loading and unloading?? LOL. They are barking mad. Looks like you have solid business case here as I assume you have company collateral to show. Otherwise I can think of some dog loads they really won't like. Use a pic site such as https://imgbb.com and post the BBCode links. Post the video on Youtube. I'm sure we'd all like to see this. https://youtu.be/-xgjlWlB3Hs |
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Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 16:04
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
I think I would risk it. It would be for the full penalty at adjudication but save the cost of a cup of coffee a week between now and when you would have to pay if you lose and you will just about save the difference. If you win a nice treat can be had.
Have a read of this. It is the case that lays out the definition of loading used by adjudicator. https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/de...r%20Hamlets.pdf You would need to stress the commercial aspect of the unloading Dont rush into anything, first post the PCN your representations and the rejection in full -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 18:35
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,860 Joined: 12 May 2012 Member No.: 54,871 |
I would have thought that, given that yours is a commercial vehicle, you should have been given the full 20 minutes permitted.
This post has been edited by DastardlyDick: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 18:35 |
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Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 19:39
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
As a matter of law, dogs are property, i.e. things (animated things, but things nonetheless). As such they can be loaded and unloaded, plus you were doing so in the course of business, so the exemption clearly applies. TFL have lost the plot.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 20:16
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Who let the dogs out? The OP.
Who's in the dog house? TFL. |
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