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Motorbike in THE Notorius Shepherds Bush Bus Lane Pcn, PCN in buslane
innnocentman
post Tue, 11 Sep 2018 - 11:58
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I recieved a PCN for being in Hammersmith Bus lane.
I've been out of the country for 2 years and I always thought non central bus lanes were ok to ride in?
I never knew Motorbikes couldnt go in bus lanes!?

https://imgur.com/a/mZgfVn2
https://imgur.com/a/mZgfVn2

1. The time says contravention at 16:10 but It has no shots of me in at 16.10.00

2. The shot of my license plate is outside a bus lane

3. There was a bus in the way of the buslane sign.

4. I seriously thought bus lanes outside central london were ok for motorbikes. What is the law on that?

Thanks guys

This post has been edited by innnocentman: Tue, 11 Sep 2018 - 11:59
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post Tue, 11 Sep 2018 - 11:58
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innnocentman
post Wed, 19 Sep 2018 - 10:22
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O ok... But I will lose the $65 discount if I dont pay in 14 days... How long would they take to adjudicate it?
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 19 Sep 2018 - 10:25
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QUOTE (innnocentman @ Wed, 19 Sep 2018 - 11:22) *
O ok... But I will lose the $65 discount if I dont pay in 14 days... How long would they take to adjudicate it?


You will lose the discount unless you pay it. If that is a concern then pay


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innnocentman
post Wed, 19 Sep 2018 - 12:12
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Of course its a bloody concern. Why else would I try to challenge it!?
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 19 Sep 2018 - 16:58
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QUOTE (innnocentman @ Wed, 19 Sep 2018 - 13:12) *
Of course its a bloody concern. Why else would I try to challenge it!?


you decide pay or appeal nowt to do with me


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Earl Purple
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 10:07
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Usual "jump the queue" nonsense. They think motorcycles should sit in car queues?

Still you can't use that as a point of appeal.

You were legally "jumping the queue" in the oncoming lane. It was legal because you were presumably not obstructing oncoming traffic at the time and the line markings were not two solid lines or a line solid on your side and broken on the other side.

Appeal process means you risk losing the discount but unless you miss deadlines there is no chance of you paying more than the full £130 rate and it's worth contesting so they don't keep getting away with issuing these. They have nothing to lose and everything to gain by rejecting your appeal.

A motorcycle protest riding around Hammersmith gyratory may show them where to stick their bus lane enforcement. Ok it didn't work with Westininster parking but I think a few more bike protests may get the message through to councils to be more bike friendly.

In any case, all my points are for Flame Pit only. For the purpose of the formal appeal the points are:

1. You were legitimately in the lane of oncoming traffic filtering past. This is a legal manoeuvre with the traffic conditions and the road markings. The video showed there was no oncoming traffic that you were obstructing.

2. You had to pull back in.

3. The sign for the offside bus-lane behind the traffic you were passing and obscured by a bus.

That's all there is to it. You'll make those points to the adjudicator and they'll almost certainly allow your appeal given the evidence. H&F will probably pull out before it gets to the adjudicator as that way they avoid any request for costs, which you should probably make.

You might make a point that "jumping" a traffic queue is legal on a motorcycle. Only using the bus-lane to do so is not, and as you couldn't see the bus lane sign you had no idea you were doing anything wrong.
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innnocentman
post Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 10:23
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Thanks.
I just checked back in today to see if there was an update.

Ill let you know if I appeal again but I feel ive left it too long now.

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peterguk
post Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 10:32
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QUOTE (innnocentman @ Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 11:23) *
I just checked back in today to see if there was an update.


What update were you looking for?

Ball is in your court.


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DastardlyDick
post Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 19:50
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There is a case from LT 2130001786 in which the signage was found to be inadequate, but it is from 2012.
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Earl Purple
post Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 09:49
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Your original appeal was rejected, I'm not sure if that was a formal rejection therefore you appeal now with the adjudicator, or a rejection of an informal appeal in which case it now goes to a formal appeal which will probably also be rejected and then you go to adjudication.

Once you've passed the discount period there is no point in "not" appealing.

I think you should appeal as the case is strong and there are strong grounds. You just need to word it correctly, i.e. have it based on you being where you were legitimately and that from there it was not possible to see a sign of an offside bus-lane.

Do not say you thought motorcycles could use bus lanes.
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cp8759
post Sat, 29 Sep 2018 - 15:36
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QUOTE (innnocentman @ Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 11:23) *
Thanks.
I just checked back in today to see if there was an update.

Ill let you know if I appeal again but I feel ive left it too long now.

I'm not sure what update you are expecting. Either you appeal, or you pay the penalty. If you do nothing and just wait for an update, the next update will be that the penalty has increased 50% to £195.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 - 15:37


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luke haig
post Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 08:43
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I was the biker who 'won' my case, it dragged on for almost a year when eventually it got to the final appeals board Hammersmith & Fulham council withdrew. They did this as they are clearly in the wrong and I had all the evidence to prove it. They make MILLIONS from this sh*tty bus lane camera trap, it's an illegal set up which they've legally worked a sneaky way around to milk the profits. Mainly the signage appears after the bus lane starts and does not conform to the planning layout that they were given permission for.
They officially acknowledge this but in a b*lls*t way which means they can continue to milk it. They make it such a massive pain in the a$$ to contest that most people just pay it. Even with all the evidence and facts it took me almost a year.


All the tedious details are here:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=113227

Note: Although my photo storage may have expired you should be able to find the relevant files online or via google maps.
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sims
post Fri, 2 Aug 2019 - 16:01
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Thanks to Luke for posting all the details. I had exactly the same situation - on my motorbike, entered the notorious bus lane because signage was hidden by a bus parked at the nearside bus stop.

I challenged the PCN. They wrote to me to say they reject my challenge. I wrote again to say I would appeal. Fully expected to have to go to Adjudicator hearing.

They just wrote to me to say that "as a gesture of goodwill" they have decided to cancel the PCN. They go on to say they "note my comments regarding the bus obstructing my view; howeverthe bus lane markings on the road at this location are clearly in place" They finish by saying "Please be advised that we consider all cases individually and so other PCNs issued in similar circumstances may not be cancelled". I take this to be an attempt to avoid setting any kind of precedent. They don't want these cases to go to the Adjudicator, where they will lose.
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