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Notice of the trial date
sharea
post Tue, 6 Mar 2018 - 20:36
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I live in the flat which is set within a private property. Some time ago (I think it was in 2013) the property manager has informed that the parking at the property will be controlled by UKPC.
I have received 1 permit + 1 visitor permit however not always I had it visible in my car. I appealed before and stated that this is very frustrating and upsetting as I live at the property, therefore, I am entitled to park there and I believe they should aim for these vehicles which do not belong to any of the people who live there. I was very stressed thinking how on earth you pay your rent, park your car at the property and then you get a ticket of £100? Not £30, £35 but £100?!!Insane! One of the ticket I paid as I couldn't get a response from POPLA so I paid however after I paid POPLA sent a letter saying the parking notice should be cancelled. I contacted UKPC asking for £100 back and sending them POPLA decision. They have never replied despite the fact I have tried several times. Last year I lost the permit somewhere (possibly when left my car at carwash they accidentally bin it). I have sent a letter to UKPC asking to issue a new one but again no response. Since then I got about 7 or more parking notices. I Have never tried to appeal it as I thought if they ignored my previous letters then what else I can do. Additionally, I asked my landlord to contact them about the permit and yet no response from them. And now I am being sent a letter from SCS LAW about the debt owed to UK Parking Control Ltd....The total outstanding is £1,120!!!Maybe it is my fault I have not appealed from these tickets before. I was very upset about being ignored and more importantly getting a ticket for parking at the property I live at. Well...What matters more now is I have no idea what to do. Obviously, I do not want to pay this amount at all. Can anyone help?Is there anything I can do? Thank you.
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post Tue, 6 Mar 2018 - 20:36
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ostell
post Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 08:27
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QUOTE (sharea @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 08:15) *
As previously advised I have contacted the court and UKPC's solicitors following the two-part process.

I have not heard from the court and the solicitor replied these documents will be provided on the trial.

However, they are happy to cooperate if I send my tenancy agreement which I did.

A few days ago I got a Notice of Trial Date so it looks like it did not help sad.gif


Please explain the above statements. What 2 part process?
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The Rookie
post Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 10:36
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QUOTE (sharea @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 08:15) *
Trial Date

HEARING date......


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Eljayjay
post Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 11:05
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So, Sharea, what does the head lease say?

Or, even though your last post on your original thread was four months ago, have you still not bothered to obtain a copy of the head lease?
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sharea
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 09:27
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 08:40) *
Original thread here.

You still need to fill the gaps as that ended in March and it now appears you'be submitted a defence and have a hearing date.

I have submitted a defence, however, it was not done correctly, therefore, I have written to the court and UKPC's solicitors (as suggested by Elijay)

Part 1:-

Your defence could read along the following lines...

The Claimant has provided a minimal amount of information in relation to the cause of its claim, thus making it almost impossible for me to mount a robust defence.

The Claimant has not provided the parking agreement between it and the owner or occupier of the land purporting to grant the right to the Claimant to charge for parking.

The Claimant has not provided the site plan provided by it to its accredited trade association.

The Claimant has not provided a copy of the written contract for the alleged debt.

The Claimant has not provided the accredited trade association’s code of practice to which it claims to adhere.

If there is a lease governing parking on the land, the Claimant has not provided a copy of the lease.

If a lease exists and any rules or regulations have been made in accordance with its provisions to allow your company to operate a parking scheme on the land, the Claimant has not provided a copy of those rules or regulations duly signed, etc. by the person(s) who made them.

If a lease exists and any rules or regulations have been made in accordance with its provisions, the Claimant has not provided a note of the specific provisions in the lease in accordance with which those rules or regulations were made.

If a lease exists and it granted individual rights to park on the land to a particular person (e.g. the lessee), the Claimant has not provided a note of the name and address of that person and a copy of the instrument which either transferred those individual rights from that person to your company or permitted them to be shared by that person and your company.

I have written to the Claimant seeking this missing documentation and any other documents on which it will rely in Court so that the Claimant and I have an opportunity to narrow the issues between us without the necessity of proceeding to a court hearing in accordance with The Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims is made by the Master of the Rolls as Head of Civil Justice effective from 1 October 2017.

In the event of the Claimant failing to respond on all of the points contained in my request, I ask that its claim should be struck out by the Court.

Additionally, I ask the Court to allow me the opportunity to amend my defence in the light of the information contained in the Claimant’s response.

<Add any other points which you wish to make and a statement of truth>


Part 2:-

At the same time, you would need to write to the Claimant or its solicitor along the following lines…

Dear Sirs,

I am writing this letter in response to your claim (No. xxxxxxx) for a parking charge, etc. issued through the County Court Business Centre at Northampton. Your reference xxxxxx applies.

I do not know why you are demanding a parking charge and, that being so, I am defending the claim. As we are required by The Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims made by the Master of the Rolls as Head of Civil Justice to narrow the issues between us, I am willing to reconsider my position provided that you supply me with the following documents:-

<tab> the parking agreement between your company and the owner or occupier of the land purporting to grant the right to your company to charge for parking;

<tab> the site plan provided by your company to its accredited trade association;

<tab> a copy of the written contract for the alleged debt;

<tab> the accredited trade association’s code of practice to which your company claims to adhere;

<tab> if there is a lease governing parking on the land, a copy of the lease;

<tab> if a lease exists and any rules or regulations have been made in accordance with its provisions to allow your company to operate a parking scheme on the land:-

<tab><tab> (a) a copy of those rules or regulations duly signed, etc. by the person(s) who made them; and
<tab><tab> (b) a note of the specific provisions in the lease in accordance with which those rules or regulations were made;

<tab> if a lease exists and it granted individual rights to park on the land to a particular person (e.g. the lessee), a note of the name and address of that person and a copy of the instrument which either transferred those individual rights from that person to your company or permitted them to be shared by that person and your company; and

<tab> any other documents on which you will rely in Court.

I look forward to receiving the documents from you as soon as possible.

Yours faithfully,

I have not heard from the court. The UKPC has replied asking for my tenancy agreement so they can consider their position in this regard.



Long story short I have emailed them full tenancy agreement on 29 May 2018.

Have not heard from them since. I was hoping they have withdrawn the case.


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Jlc
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 09:30
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QUOTE (sharea @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 10:27) *
I was hoping they have withdrawn the case.

Ball's in your court (pardon the pun) I'm afraid. Without a notice of discontinuance it's going ahead, more so if they've paid the hearing fee.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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sharea
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 09:34
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QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 12:05) *
So, Sharea, what does the head lease say?

Or, even though your last post on your original thread was four months ago, have you still not bothered to obtain a copy of the head lease?


I did get a copy from Land Registry but there isn't anything relevant to parking
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 10:24
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Sure about that?

what about communal areas? Right to use areas? How thoroughly you have done this is a mystery to us.

The court were never going to do a damned thing with that letter, as you should know.

So balls literally in your court. You knew this was still going ahead, as you hadnt been told otherwise. You need to get a bit more seriously in gear with this.
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sharea
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 12:40
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 11:24) *
Sure about that?

what about communal areas? Right to use areas? How thoroughly you have done this is a mystery to us.

The court were never going to do a damned thing with that letter, as you should know.

So balls literally in your court. You knew this was still going ahead, as you hadn't been told otherwise. You need to get a bit more seriously in gear with this.


Please dont get annoyed. I am struggling a bit to get things done as I have given birth two months ago and also have 2 yo daughter and I am all alone in this.

The thing is I dont know nothing. I am not familiar with the law. English is not my first language that's why I was looking for help.

I did pay and obtained a copy of land registry I read it, however, I dont understand a thing.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 12:47
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So then why not try to help us to help you, by showing us a copy of the lease?
We also cant mind read. We dont know what yorue going through, until literally just now!

So use something like tinypics to host a copy of the lease
We can then have a look through and see what you can use.

BUT you MUST start to write the witness stateemtn NOW. TODAY. Its a series of *facts*, known to you, plus reference to the evidence you have to support your statements of fact .This bit is easy - because youre telling a logical story, starting at the start, timewise, and going through.

This isnt annoyance, its frustration - we're here to help, but sitting for four months hoping isnt a great strategy smile.gif
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Eljayjay
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 13:01
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I think what Sharea may have obtained is the Title document available online instead of the head lease which, as I understand it, cannot be obtained online. Instead, a form OC2 has to be completed and handed-in at/sent to the Land Registry with the appropriate fee.
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sharea
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 08:38
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QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 14:01) *
I think what Sharea may have obtained is the Title document available online instead of the head lease which, as I understand it, cannot be obtained online. Instead, a form OC2 has to be completed and handed-in at/sent to the Land Registry with the appropriate fee.


I have printed out and completed OC2 form. Will posted today. I thought that the Title Land Registry is the head lease.

It should arrive within a few days.


QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 13:47) *
So then why not try to help us to help you, by showing us a copy of the lease?
We also cant mind read. We dont know what yorue going through, until literally just now!

So use something like tinypics to host a copy of the lease
We can then have a look through and see what you can use.

BUT you MUST start to write the witness stateemtn NOW. TODAY. Its a series of *facts*, known to you, plus reference to the evidence you have to support your statements of fact .This bit is easy - because youre telling a logical story, starting at the start, timewise, and going through.

This isnt annoyance, its frustration - we're here to help, but sitting for four months hoping isnt a great strategy smile.gif


Thank you. I do appreciate it smile.gif

I should get a copy of the head lease in a few days. I thought the Title is the head lease.
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sharea
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 06:56
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As for the witness statement, what should I rely on? The lost permit or tenancy agreement or the head lease (once I get it and find something relevant)?

SCS sent me their witness statement in which they have enclosed the copy of the contract with OM property who was the property management at that time.

They have also included my tenancy agreement which they requested from me and stated:

"The defendant suggests that she has an automatic and unfettered right to park at the site by reason of the fact that she is a tenant therein. In the first instance, the tenancy in question is a residential one and the parking spaces do not form part of the demised premises. It is denied that the parking spaces form part of the 'common access ways and facilities', as parking at the site was not offered to the resident on a communal basis" and

"In any event it is denied that the tenancy agreement grants to the defendant an unfettered right to park at the site and even if a right to use the parking space was afforded to the Defendant, this right would have been subject to the Defendant complying with the terms and conditions of parking at the site, per the signage".

Additionally, the hearing date is on 7th of August and I am going to be away can I change it somehow?

Also, just wondering, the court I have chosen is near where I live in the west and the hearing is going to be in the city, is that possible?
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ostell
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 07:08
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So you are saying that you selected a court in your Directions Questionnaire and you have been ignored?

Unless you have a very good reason it will be very difficult to change the court date.
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 07:38
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Entirely possible the court you selected was full.
It happens.

Did you not tell them the dates you couldnt make it? As this is over 7 days you have a CHANCE but ideally the date picked is a date you said you couldnt make in your DQ. Also, when were you told of this date? IDeally you should reject very quickly if theyve made an errror.

Your WS covers anything and everything that hekpos you. If you do not include the head lease in it, you CANNOT INTRODUCE IT AT COURt.

Your response to their WS is trivial - parking is clearly a facility offered at the site, and once offered, a sign put up by a 3rd party stranger to the tenancy cannot alter this agreemeent. THe claimant is a stranger to the site, with no more rights to alter a tenants lease than any other entity. Even if they claim to be authorised by the landholder, once granted, the landholder may not derogate from that grant.
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Eljayjay
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 09:38
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You state that "they have enclosed the copy of the contract with OM property who was the property management at that time".

Precisely, what do you mean by "OM property... was the property management at that time"?

Was the contract for a defined period or open-ended? When did OM Property cease to be involved with the development?

Did OM Property own the land or were they just the management company or the managing agents of the development? Is the latter, which of the management company or the managing agents applies?

What is the name of the person who signed the contract on behalf of OM Property? In what capacity did that person sign the contract, e.g. was it as a director of OM Property? State precisely what it says on the contract.

If OM Property is OM Property Ltd (Reg. No. 05452872), according to the last accounts lodged with Companies House, the company's total net assets at 31 May 2017 amounted to just £12,016. So, they are not likely to have been the owner of the land, in which case the Claimant has not provided evidence of his right to operate on the land.

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ostell
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 11:16
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Since it's UKPC and private parking then this may be of interest for later
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sharea
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 21:44
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QUOTE (ostell @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 08:08) *
So you are saying that you selected a court in your Directions Questionnaire and you have been ignored?

Unless you have a very good reason it will be very difficult to change the court date.


The home court is one I have selected but the case will be held at the Royal Courts of Justice.

I am going away next week abroad to stay with my parents so they can help out with my babies but I guess it isn't a very good reason for them to change it sad.gif
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sharea
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 22:03
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 08:38) *
Entirely possible the court you selected was full.
It happens.

Did you not tell them the dates you couldnt make it? As this is over 7 days you have a CHANCE but ideally the date picked is a date you said you couldnt make in your DQ. Also, when were you told of this date? IDeally you should reject very quickly if theyve made an errror.

Your WS covers anything and everything that hekpos you. If you do not include the head lease in it, you CANNOT INTRODUCE IT AT COURt.

Your response to their WS is trivial - parking is clearly a facility offered at the site, and once offered, a sign put up by a 3rd party stranger to the tenancy cannot alter this agreemeent. THe claimant is a stranger to the site, with no more rights to alter a tenants lease than any other entity. Even if they claim to be authorised by the landholder, once granted, the landholder may not derogate from that grant.

I have not put that date in my DQ as only decided to go last week. Too bad then.

I am going to wait until Friday and hopefully will receive the head lease copy by then.
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sharea
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 22:55
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QUOTE (Eljayjay @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 10:38) *
You state that "they have enclosed the copy of the contract with OM property who was the property management at that time".

Precisely, what do you mean by "OM property... was the property management at that time"?

Was the contract for a defined period or open-ended? When did OM Property cease to be involved with the development?

Did OM Property own the land or were they just the management company or the managing agents of the development? Is the latter, which of the management company or the managing agents applies?

What is the name of the person who signed the contract on behalf of OM Property? In what capacity did that person sign the contract, e.g. was it as a director of OM Property? State precisely what it says on the contract.

If OM Property is OM Property Ltd (Reg. No. 05452872), according to the last accounts lodged with Companies House, the company's total net assets at 31 May 2017 amounted to just £12,016. So, they are not likely to have been the owner of the land, in which case the Claimant has not provided evidence of his right to operate on the land.

Fairhold (Yorkshire) Ltd c/o OM Property Managment Ltd company number 2061041
On the contract there is information:
-hours of operation Monday- Sunday, 6am- 10pm
-Initial Period- 12 months beginning on the start date that is 30 September 2013
-Parking charges- we will issue parking charges to drivers of vehicles parked in breach of the restrictions at the Premises
and,
-Fairhold (Yorkshire)Ltd owns the Premises and you (OM Property Managment ltd) are its appointed agent in relation to the Premises and you give permission for UKPC to levy the Parking Charges on the Premises

The contract was signed by a person for and on behalf of the Client. It does not state this person position in the company.

On 23 March 2015 I got letter from OM.. saying they are changing their name to FirstPort Property Services.
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ostell
post Wed, 18 Jul 2018 - 07:21
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Is there any indication that the contract was extended past the 1st year?
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