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UK CPM ticket for.oarking in resident's bay, Parked in resident bay, ticket not displayed.
A75
post Wed, 4 Jul 2018 - 21:00
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Hi All,

Please see attached images. The car belongs to a resident and they do have a permit which they placed on the dashboard but seems to have fallen down while they left the car (blame wind or their rush to get inside)

Is there any way to appeal this ticket?

Thanks in advance.
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post Wed, 4 Jul 2018 - 21:00
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ostell
post Wed, 4 Jul 2018 - 21:45
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OK, Have a read of this link and then get out the copy of thelease and see what it says about parking and if the the parking place is demised with the flat.
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A75
post Wed, 4 Jul 2018 - 21:58
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Hi, forgot to mention that they did look through the tenancy agreement and there's no mention of parking. The area in use is part of a residential estate that covers three buildings. The parking has only been enforced for a couple of years (after this resident moved in) and CPM took over in April this year.

Thanks
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 4 Jul 2018 - 22:55
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Don't just look for the words Parking, of course. Look,fir any mention of the communal areas and what can and can't be done.
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emanresu
post Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 05:12
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Why not write to them and ask them to check the following

1. Was the VRM on their list of permits issued
2. Was the permit valid
3. Was the car parked in the space that relates to the permit.
4. Do they intend to continue to process your personal data without reasonable cause.

Then ask them to cancel as the answer to the above is yes. Get proof it was sent, and come back with their reply.


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Daily Court List. See who is doing what and where here
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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Eljayjay
post Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 12:47
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You could try getting your head around the letter below and, if you like it, send it.

In effect, the letter is saying to the parking company, if you believe that you have a right to issue tickets in my parking space, prove it.

The letter was originally drafted for a residential case as a response to a letter before claim/letter of claim – they are the same thing – but it can be sent at any time.

If the parking company does not reply to the letter when it is first used, then you would have lost nothing. Furthermore, you can use a slightly modified version of it as a response to whatever else you receive up to and including the letter before claim/letter of claim.

Of course, in the very unlikely event that the parking company provides a complete response to the draft letter, the information and documentation supplied by them will be very useful to you.

If I were you, I would send the letter today – using first class mail, handing it in at a Post Office counter, and requesting a free certificate of posting – sit back and relax until you receive what, if anything, comes next.



Dear <salutation>,

Thank you for your <letter/email/parking charge notice> reference <their ref> of <date> in relation to a parking issue at <location>.

I am the registered keeper of the vehicle on which the parking charge notice was placed.

If your company wishes to continue its attempt to recover the alleged parking charge, it will need to establish its right to the money through the County Court.

Before taking court action against me, however, in accordance with The Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims as made by the Master of the Rolls as Head of Civil Justice, your company must send me a letter of claim.

The purpose of The Pre-Action Protocol is to give both your company and myself an opportunity to narrow the issues between us. That being so, after the letter of claim has been sent, your company must give me a window of time in which to respond to the letter and to request information and documents from it.

If your company would like me to reconsider my position before we get to that stage, it may wish to provide now the information and documents, which I shall otherwise request later, so that we can attempt to narrow the issues between us now. If so, please arrange for your company to send me the following:-

<tab> the parking agreement between your company and the owner or occupier of the land purporting to grant the right to your company to charge for parking on the land;

<tab> the site plan provided by your company to its accredited trade association;

<tab> a copy of the written contract for the alleged debt;

<tab> the accredited trade association’s code of practice to which your company claims to adhere;

<tab> if there is a lease governing parking on the land, a copy of the lease;

<tab> if a lease exists and contains express provision to allow your company to operate a parking scheme on the land, a note of the specific clauses in the lease applicable to this situation;

<tab> if a lease exists and any rules or regulations have been made in accordance with its provisions to allow your company to operate a parking scheme on the land:-

<tab><tab> (a) a copy of those rules or regulations duly signed, etc. by the person(s) who made them; and
<tab><tab> (b) a note of the specific clauses in the lease in accordance with which those rules or regulations were made;

<tab> if a lease exists and it granted individual rights to park on the land to a particular person, e.g. the lessee, a note of the name and address of that person and a copy of the instrument which either transferred those individual rights from that person to your company or transferred a share of those individual rights from that person to your company – if there is more than one such person, please provide the same information and documentation for each of them;

<tab> if a lease exists and its terms do not permit third parties, e.g. your company, to enforce the lease’s terms, a note explaining how your company has concluded that it has acquired such a right;

<tab> if a lease exists and your company’s parking scheme has not been introduced in accordance with its provisions, a note explaining how your company has concluded that its alleged parking contract with the driver has acquired primacy of contract over the lease; and

<tab> notes giving details of the due diligence process undertaken by your company to ensure that not only the contract between your company and its principal but also the purported contract between your company and the driver met the “Implied term about care and skill” requirement contained in the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

Of course, I am sure that, like me, your company has great respect for the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims and, particularly, its aims as expressed in its paragraph 2. In these circumstances, I am sure that your company would like to narrow and, if at all possible, resolve the issues between us by providing the information and documents requested above at the earliest possible opportunity.

In that event, I shall gladly reconsider my position on receipt of them.

As I am sure you will realise, in the event that your company does not provide the information and documents prior to court action being taken against me, I shall apply to the court for your company’s claim to be struck out for its failure to comply with The Protocol.

Furthermore, in the event of court action being taken against me, I shall launch a counterclaim against your company.

I look forward to receiving your reply.

Yours sincerely,
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A75
post Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 18:57
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Hi all,

There is no fixed parking space for each car. Rather you can park in any space as long as a residents permit is displayed. The company has no idea of the car reg they just issue a paper permit per household.

Thanks
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Eljayjay
post Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 20:08
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How do you know that?

Your tenancy agreement is only part of the picture. What you really need is the head lease for the flat, i.e. the lease between the freeholder and the flat's leasehold owner.

On the assumption that your landlord is the leasehold owner, you should ask him/her for a copy of the lease. If the lease is not forthcoming from that source, you can obtain a copy through the Land Registry by completing a form OC2 and paying a fee.

The other way to find out what's what is to send the letter in my previous post and see what information and documents, if any, the parking company supplies.

At present, you appear to be working in the dark, and in the dark is not the place to be.

This post has been edited by Eljayjay: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 20:08
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A75
post Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 21:29
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Hi thanks for your response. Would be pretty difficult to get the head lease from the landlord I think.

Just to clarify the are no bays as such, but just and open area for residents where parking is permitted. Up until 2 years ago no permit was required after which the managing agents hired these clown as many non residents were parking their cars in the estate.


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Eljayjay
post Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 22:17
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If you cannot get a copy of the lease from your landlord, then obtain a copy from the Land Registry by completing a form OC2 and paying a fee.

Any right which you have to park where you live is almost certainly governed by your landlord’s right to park contained in his/her lease regardless of whether or not the parking spaces are allocated.

The first rule in residential parking spaces is very simple: get a copy of the head lease.

If you cannot be bothered to do that, then I would suggest you send my draft letter and see what, if anything, it brings. If the parking company does not reply to it, you have lost nothing. If, on the other hand, the parking company does reply to it, it will provide you with information and documents which you currently lack.

As I said to another poster this evening, the dark is not the place to work.

This post has been edited by Eljayjay: Thu, 5 Jul 2018 - 22:18
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A75
post Fri, 6 Jul 2018 - 22:55
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Hi all,. Just a quick.question. Is it worth ignoring this and waiting for the notice to keeper to arrive? Then appeal that?
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Eljayjay
post Fri, 6 Jul 2018 - 23:14
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Yes, wait for the notice to keeper.

This post has been edited by Eljayjay: Fri, 6 Jul 2018 - 23:15
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emanresu
post Sat, 7 Jul 2018 - 06:32
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QUOTE
The company has no idea of the car reg they just issue a paper permit per household.


You are a tenant so what did the landlord tell you about the scheme? Your tenancy agreement may be silent on the issue of parking as the right to unfettered use may not have been transferred. But if the landlord/leaseholder has the right to unfettered use, it may be implied that you had it too.

Or did the landlord e.g. a Housing Association hire UKCPM

This post has been edited by emanresu: Sat, 7 Jul 2018 - 06:36


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Daily Court List. See who is doing what and where here
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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A75
post Sat, 7 Jul 2018 - 09:44
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The managing agents hired UKCPM.

The landlord was art of this as well (as were others in the building) due to non residents parking and taking all the spaces meaning residents had to park on the street.

With regards to ignoring this, what would be the process after I receive the notice to keeper? I've read on some other threads that you can't appeal to POPLA with this company.

Apologies if that a silly question, but this is literally the second parking fine I have received (the first was cancelled with help from this forum)
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Eljayjay
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 15:43
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As the parking company's accredited trade association is the IPC, POPLA does not apply. Do not bother with the IPC's appeal service through the IAS - it is a kangaroo court.

If/when you receive a notice of keeper, my advice to you would be to send the letter in my first post of 5 July.

In the meantime, get a copy of the head lease.

Residential parking cases are usually very easily defended, but you need to do some homework, the first part of which is to get a copy of the head lease.

You appear to be asking questions but then ignoring the answers.
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A75
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 21:49
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Hi all, just to update. The landlord has been contacted asking if there is anything in the head lease reagrding the use of the parking area. He's also been asked if he can get in touch with the managing agent to get the ticket cancelled.

Will update once they hear back/when the Notice to keeper arrives
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whjohnson
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 22:10
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Get your own copy of the lease form the Land Registry - don't hang about, the clock is ticking.
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A75
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 19:21
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Hi All,

Notice to keeper has been received. Please see attached.

Landlord has checked head lease and can't see anything in regards to parking.

Is there anything particular that should be sent in the appeal?

Thanks again.

This post has been edited by A75: Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 19:27
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Eljayjay
post Thu, 9 Aug 2018 - 21:10
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You have been advised by more than just me to get a copy of the head lease so that you can go through it yourself.

How do you know your landlord has been through the lease? How do you know that he knew all of what he should have been looking for?

If you do not bother to do the necessary homework, you will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 10 Aug 2018 - 08:29
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Indeed, the advice was unequivocal - YOU get the lease and YOU check.
If the landlord wont show you then just by it. Form OC2, land registry.
In the last month what appeal points have you researched?
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