PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

CCJ - Gemini Parking, HELP!!
Trixie2
post Fri, 22 Sep 2017 - 15:09
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 172
Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,164



Hello all and thanks in advance for your help here.

I was recently turned down for a credit card, which really surprised me as I know I have a good credit rating. When I got home I looked at my credit file and to my horror someone had taken out a CCJ against me, at my old address.

After a lot of digging it turns out it's a PPC. The ticket was received in January 2016 by Gemini Parking. I remember the day - the machine would not accept the driver's coins and when the button for help was pressed no one answered. No choice but to leave the premises and a couple of weeks later a ticket arrived in the post to me as the registered keeper. I was so busy with an incredibly stressful house move that kept almost falling through at the last minute, that I thought I'd appeal later. I forgot.

We eventually completed and on March 1st 2016 we moved house. We had a redirection on our post for a few weeks - plus I updated my details with the DVLA.

Now fast forward to today and I find out indirectly that in January 2017 they went to court in Northampton and got a CCJ completely without my knowledge. The court said the mail was never sent back to them - not much I can do about that as I don't know the new owners.

They said I can either pay the debt and the CCJ will remain on file for 6 years, or I can pay £255 to apply to have it set aside. Problem with that is, the judge might not find in my favour and then I still have to pay £260 for the debt.

What on earth do I do?? Should they have attempted to double check my address when they went to court?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

This post has been edited by Trixie2: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 - 12:44
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
15 Pages V   1 2 3 > »   
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Fri, 22 Sep 2017 - 15:09
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
kommando
post Fri, 22 Sep 2017 - 16:43
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,940
Joined: 6 Oct 2012
Member No.: 57,558



You have 3 choices 1 of which will do you no good at all so do not follow it but I include it for completeness.

1. Pay Gemini the CCJ amount, this will get it marked as satisfied but will still effect your credit rating so a pointless exercise.

2. Contact Gemini, and get them to agree to an uncontested set aside with you paying them for the CCJ and an amount for the non contested set aside expenses. This will clear your credit record and restore it to the correct status.

3. Apply to the court for a contested set aside, cost will be £255. This resets the claim back to the start giving you the ability to defend, if your defence works you pay nothing and get the £255 back.

QUOTE
Should they have attempted to double check my address when they went to court?


Yes, this will be part of your submission to 3 contested set aside, plus moving and you arranged for postal forwarding and informed DVLA.

This post has been edited by kommando: Fri, 22 Sep 2017 - 16:44
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Trixie2
post Fri, 22 Sep 2017 - 17:44
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 172
Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,164



Hi Kommando - thanks for your reply and your advice.

QUOTE
2. Contact Gemini, and get them to agree to an uncontested set aside with you paying them for the CCJ and an amount for the non contested set aside expenses. This will clear your credit record and restore it to the correct status.


What do you mean by uncontested set aside? Will this cost me anything? Who would be responsible for clearing my credit record? Them?


QUOTE
Should they have attempted to double check my address when they went to court?

Yes, this will be part of your submission to 3 contested set aside, plus moving and you arranged for postal forwarding and informed DVLA.


Would I still be able to do this if the address they had was correct at the time of the PCN issuing? I moved a month and a half later, but the CCJ was issued over a year later.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kommando
post Fri, 22 Sep 2017 - 18:32
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,940
Joined: 6 Oct 2012
Member No.: 57,558



QUOTE
What do you mean by uncontested set aside? Will this cost me anything? Who would be responsible for clearing my credit record? Them?


Uncontested means with Gemini's agreement to the set aside, they will be responsible for clearing the record so you need it all in writing, cost is what you owe them plus whatever they demand for the uncontested set aside.

QUOTE
Would I still be able to do this if the address they had was correct at the time of the PCN issuing? I moved a month and a half later, but the CCJ was issued over a year later.


Yes, they had a responsibility to check using a tracing service before raising the claim in case you did exactly what you did and moved, you did all the right actions and you can hardly have been get mail transferred 1 year later.

For a contested set aside you also need a defence that would work, it was their fault the machine was not working and they also did not answer, it needs fleshing out and more legal points added.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Sat, 23 Sep 2017 - 00:14
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17,194
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



Plus £100 to file the uncontested set aside.

For a contested set aside if you can show service was not effected, ie they sent to an invalid address, then the set aside is automatically granted. You need to show you were “there to bevfound” at your new address - electoral register, council tax etc all show a simple check would have shown your current address.

For security you also add a one page defence on the main points covered in every defence.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Trixie2
post Mon, 25 Sep 2017 - 21:28
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 172
Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,164



Thanks all. It seems the plot has thickened.

I went round to see the new owner of my old house. She said she returned all mail for me to sender. She also said she got a call in January this year from a debt collector. They told her I owed £80 and the debt would affect her as it was connected to that address. It scared her enough to pay up!

She's happy to put everything down in a statement and she's going to check who she paid the £80 to as she couldn't remember.

Fingers crossed it's the same thing and I'll be able to get it set aside quite easily on the basis the fine was paid! Obviously I'll be paying her back.

I went to the CAB today and they've asked me to get everything from the court/Gemini/Gladstones, and to make a longer appointment with them and they'll help me. They said they're pushing for more scrutiny for PPCs.

Will keep you posted on how everything goes.

Thanks again for all your help.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Mon, 25 Sep 2017 - 21:35
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,604
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



That's shocking if they claimed that!!! A blatant lie.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Tue, 26 Sep 2017 - 07:59
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17,194
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



You only have a limited time to make the application, from when you knew about the CCJ
do NOT delay waiting on CAB.

They are mostly useless, so take their advice with a pinch of salt. For example, their standard line on parking charges was written FOR THEM by the parking companies association......
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Trixie2
post Tue, 26 Sep 2017 - 13:19
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 172
Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,164



QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 26 Sep 2017 - 08:59) *
You only have a limited time to make the application, from when you knew about the CCJ
do NOT delay waiting on CAB.

Oh God I didn't know that! How long do I have??
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Tue, 26 Sep 2017 - 13:27
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17,194
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



As soon as reaosnable - within 2 or 3 weeks I would suggest.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Trixie2
post Tue, 26 Sep 2017 - 20:19
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 172
Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,164



OK thank you. I'm so worried about this!

I'm considering paying the £274 and then applying to get the CCJ set aside. If I'm successful do you know if I'll be able to claim back the £255?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SchoolRunMum
post Tue, 26 Sep 2017 - 23:36
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17,641
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Member No.: 32,130



You can't pay it off then pay £255 to set it aside. The 3 options kommando set out in post #2 are mutually exclusive.

Read the NEWBIES thread post #2 on MSE where set asides are explained, with examples and yes, people have got the £255 back:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4816822

Not the first post, that's how you should have appealed and won in 2016. Second post shows you set asides. You can also search both forums for those words and read other people's threads to see what happened in their case. I can recall one case on here and one recent case on MSE where an idiot Judge refused to even set the CCJ aside, but hundreds (yes hundreds) on both forums where set asides are granted in your circumstances.

I would not pay the scumbags, I would go for £255 set aside and prepare evidence as discussed here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=115890

That OP seems to have run away from his thread. Don't do that, we can help you get this sorted. You need form N244 from your local court - and don't let the CAB tell you to write about the excuses and the story of what happened/who parked, in your attached Witness Statement!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 07:04
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17,194
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



QUOTE (Trixie2 @ Tue, 26 Sep 2017 - 21:19) *
OK thank you. I'm so worried about this!

I'm considering paying the £274 and then applying to get the CCJ set aside. If I'm successful do you know if I'll be able to claim back the £255?

No, you cannot do it that way, and if you are outside of the one month then paying merely means it is on your credit file as satisfied. Your rating is still garbage.

Do the set aside, contested or uncontested, but the only way to repair your credit rating is to get a succesful set aside.

You can only "claim back" the £255 if the court grants it, hence why your draft set aside order you MUST INCLUDE with your set asside application includes an order that the PPC pay you your fee.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Trixie2
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 16:01
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 172
Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,164



Hi. Thank you so much for your help so far. I came home today to find that Gemini have indeed sent what they have to me so I have uploaded it below.

I think I am going to do the set aside and risk losing £255. I'll just have to chalk it up to experience if I lose.

I am currently reading through the links SchoolRunMum posted - thanks for those - huge help! I will start to write up my defense asap and post here.

Some thoughts - hope you don't mind me putting them down here:

1- When the PCN and the reminder notice were issued, Gemini had the right address. I had not yet moved. What defense could I have for ignoring them?

2- Although I moved on 1st March 2016, it appears I did not update the DVLA until April 20th 2016, and this case was transferred to DRP on 2nd April 2016, so assuming they issued their letter immediately and they checked the DVLA too, they would also have got my old address. Can't see a defense here either.

3- We had a mail redirection but I can't remember how long we did it for. Probably a few months, but I can't be sure. I do not remember getting anything from DRP. I had an 8 month old baby at this point and my mind wasn't on the ball.

4- I called DRP and they told me they have closed the case on their system so cannot access anything unless I pay £10. Do I do this? Otherwise I have no idea what letters were sent out and when.

5- The person that bought our old house said she would sign a statement and find out who she paid the £80 back in January. She is no longer taking my calls or replying to my whatsapps so I cannot rely on her :-( I could write in my own statement though that I spoke to her and she said she sent everything back to sender. Only problem here is the court said they did not get anything back. I do believe the buyer of our old house, so it could be that the Royal Mail were not doing their job properly.

6- Assuming DRP got the mail returned and Gladstones (no idea if they did though) they should have looked for me elsewhere. I am not on the open register but they would have found a registered address for the company I am a director of, and they could have had papers served there.

7- So from reading online it seems that for a set aside I have to show that DRP/Gladstones/Gemini had reason to believe I moved and did not try to look for me elsewhere. I also need to prove I have a robust enough defense that will probably win. I'm assuming the defense is why I didn't pay for parking? Or why the CCJ shouldn't have been obtained - not sure. Do you really think I can prove either?

8- I did not take pictures of signage back in January 2016 so no idea if I can prove their signage was in order. Will current photos be OK?

Thanks so much for reading this far!







This post has been edited by Trixie2: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 - 12:46
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cabbyman
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 16:12
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5,598
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
From: Hampshire
Member No.: 16,066



The first point that leaps out is that they are confusing parking time with entry and exit times so is is non compliant with PoFA. The car could not possibly have been parked for the time alleged.


--------------------
Cabbyman 9 PPCs 0
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Trixie2
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 16:39
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 172
Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,164



Thanks Cabbyman. Just reading POFA at the moment. This stands out to me too:

(4)The notice must be given—
(a)before the vehicle is removed from the relevant land after the end of the period of parking to which the notice relates, and
(b)while the vehicle is stationary,by affixing it to the vehicle or by handing it to a person appearing to be in charge of the vehicle.

Nothing was attached to my car - it was issued 12 days after the incident, and was sent by second class apparently, so I would have received it a minimum of 14 days after.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cabbyman
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 16:45
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5,598
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
From: Hampshire
Member No.: 16,066



That only applies to Notices to Driver. Further down, Para 9 I think it is, applies to Notices to Keepers which is the applicable paragraph here. Compare everything in that para with the NtK. A fair bit of it will be missing.

How can you prove it was sent second class?


--------------------
Cabbyman 9 PPCs 0
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Trixie2
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 16:46
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 172
Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,164



QUOTE (cabbyman @ Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 17:45) *
That only applies to Notices to Driver. Further down, Para 9 I think it is, applies to Notices to Keepers which is the applicable paragraph here. Compare everything in that para with the NtK. A fair bit of it will be missing.

How can you prove it was sent second class?

OK thank you. I cannot prove it but when I called Gemini yesterday they told me it was sent second class when I asked.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Trixie2
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 20:12
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 172
Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,164



Hi all. Thanks for your help so far. I've read all the links you provided but am slightly concerned that none are like mine. At the time the original PCN was issued and reminder notice I was still at the address they wrote to but I didn't respond. I only moved a month or so later and didn't update the DVLA for another month. When the claim went to court I had been in my new address for 9 months but I'm not sure if they'd have to double check at the point of court applications if they had the right address.

Any advice on what my defense might be for ignoring would be hugely appreciated.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kommando
post Wed, 27 Sep 2017 - 21:25
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,940
Joined: 6 Oct 2012
Member No.: 57,558



They are only allowed to access the DVLA once, they cannot do it again for the same parking event. Later when they come to raise a claim they are supposed to use a tracing company, that you took 5 or 6 weeks to update the DVLA is of no consequence and had no effect, DRP could not go to the DVLA.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

15 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 17th August 2018 - 15:28
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.