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BW Legal letter of claim (times 2) plus phone calls, How best to respond?
Jones42
post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 21:05
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Hello,

Let me tell you a story about a friend of mine. In November he received two letters from BW Legal concerning two alleged parking fee disputes in early 2018 in England, in a car park run by Brittania, who had seemingly recently installed cameras of which he was unaware. My friend ignored the letters, having ignored similar letters many times in the past without consequence. My friend informs me that he thinks no tickets were placed on the car at the time of the alleged contraventions, and he is not sure who was driving. He tells me he did receive two letters, including pictures of his number plate and an invtitation to pay earlier in the year but he threw them in the bin and thought that would be the end of it. In December followed two letters of claim, for the same alleged incidents, which now need to be dealt with in the next week or so. These letters don't seem so easily brushed off. Over Xmas BW Legal also started calling about once a day on his landline. This is interesting as he is ex-directory. Every phone call was greeted with a terse request that say how they got hold of the phone number before any further conversation could proceed, I am told. BW Legal were unable to answer that question so that was where these calls all ended.

My friend is now going to wade through the newbie guide and see if he can find a template letter he can adapt and respond with, in order to deter BW Legal from chasing this any further. Is the fact they've somehow naughtily obtained his landline number something he can use to his advantage? My friend also says he is tempted to save himself lots of court and admin time by just paying up, but fears this could lead to an avalanche of such claims in the near future if he is then seen as a mark.

Any guidance from the wise is welcome.
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post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 21:05
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Redivi
post Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 21:42
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Some debt collection companies have software that can check Experian without leaving a trace
If your friend has applied for credit or for example a mobile phone, the landline number will be linked to the application

In future he must tell BWL that they must not telephone him and put the phone down

Then report them as a nuisance caller when they continue
In response to the Letters of Claim, tell BWL to send copies of all the documents their client intends to rely on

Also send a Subject Access Request to Britannia for all the information they hold about him
Tell BWL that's what he's done and they must not take legal action until the request has been complied with

For future refernce, never throw away any document that even hints at the existence of a debt or the risk of legal action

There is no letter that will deter BWL

They've known for two years that I've never had any connection to a car parked at a location I've never visited
Hasn't stopped them sending a Letter Before Claim a few days ago

This post has been edited by Redivi: Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 21:44
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Jones42
post Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 13:43
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Thank you Redivi, for your very informed and helpful response.

My friend has found a template for a Subject Access request to Britannia and that is now ready to post.
He had less success finding a template letter to tell BWL to send copies of all documents they intend to reply on, and informing them than an SAR has been sent to their client and that they need to wait. Is there such a template, or should he simply draft a simple letter saying those two things himself? He is quite happy to do this, but would rather use a template if there is one to make sure he doesn't accidentally say anything he shouldn't.

Many thanks
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 14:19
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Just draft a letter.
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Jones42
post Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 15:41
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Thank you, my friend will stop being such a wuss and do that right away. Much appreciated.
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Jones42
post Fri, 11 Jan 2019 - 11:14
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All done, I'll let you know how he gets on. Many thanks to Nosferatu1001 and Redivi.
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Jones42
post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 15:20
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BW basically replied with a letter saying sod off and that they are not holding off proceedings unless Britannia instruct them too. He'll give me a scanned and redacted version to post at the weekend.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 17 Jan 2019 - 16:29
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Thats their template
You state they have no pressing need, as the Limitations Act gives them another X years to file a claim, and so they have no reason to fail to restrict processing.
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Jones42
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 16:29
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Thanks Nosferatu1001. Here’s their letter. No reply from Brittania as yet .
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This post has been edited by Jones42: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 16:32
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 22 Jan 2019 - 10:42
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Yes, but you respond back - they have no pressing need to continue processing data, for the reasnos I have given
If they believe differently - why they MUST rush to file a claim - you require an explanation of exactly why. Another template will not be acceptable.
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Jones42
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 14:14
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On it. Thank you.
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Jones42
post Mon, 4 Mar 2019 - 20:22
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My friend has been away, but now we are catching up on the avalanche of recent paperwork on this. No sign of them giving up yet...

Update part 1. Britannia parking reply.

They basically gave a bare bones response with the details of their claim, pictures of the car and copies of the notice to keeper and final reminder. They did not reply to the requests in my letter for evidence of:
Signs on day in question
That they have paid a debt collector
PDT machine record for that day.

Attached files in two parts as large.
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Jones42
post Mon, 4 Mar 2019 - 20:46
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Update part 2. I've run into a file size limit problem and can't seem to post any more images. I'll try again tomorrow and see if it has cleared. In summary:

As well as the above, Britannia have also sent the same again for the other disputed ticket (there are two, I sent individual reply letters for both of them).

Meanwhile BW Legal are extremely keen. They have sent:

For one of the tickets a letter saying 'Please find enclosed a copy of all correspondence issued by our client and photographic evidence of the vehicle at the location of the contravention. In order to use the facility it is your responsibility to abide by the terms and conditions. As the vehicle involved in the contravention was failure (sic) to make a valid payment these terms and conditions were broken. As a result of this breach, our client is well within their contractual rights to issue the parking charge notice and take all necessary steps (including bringing legal proceedings) to recover the outstanding charge. Should you require any further assistance please contact....'

BW Legal have also sent a reply concerning the second ticket saying 'As previously advised, we are acting on our clients instructions to recover the above balance which remains owed by yourself to our client. As stated in our previous letter dates XXX your account will not be suspended from further collections activity unless we are instructed to do so by out client. We note you (sic) we have not received a response to our letter dated XXXX We enclose our letter dated XXXXX Please be advised we have provided you with additional time and placed your account on hold for 10 days to enable you ample time to complete and return this to us, thus suspending collections activity. Failure to complete and returned the required Reply Form would result in collections activity commencing which may result in legal action being taken in the form of a Claim being issued against in in (sic) the County Court'

They have also sent a Claim Form for the County Court Business Centre Northampton.It is unclear which ticket this relates to but I'm guessing the second ticket.

This post has been edited by Jones42: Mon, 4 Mar 2019 - 20:46
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 5 Mar 2019 - 09:54
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1) Signs on day in question - of course not. Not personal data
2) That they have paid a debt collector - of course not. Not personal data
3) PDT machine record for that day. - they COULD have provided this as your vrm woudl have been recorded and so this IS PII. THey should redact the others but only so much as to avoid identifying them, so not completely oblitereated. Halfway.

Of course the size wont clear

FOllow teh READ ME FIRST sticky. Use imgur, tinypics etc to host pictures .

Claim form - gives date of incident? PCN ref? SOMETHING to indicate which ticket it refers to??

You obviously have to get the Defendant to acjknowlege the claim, and produce a defence. Gives them 33 days from date of ISSUE (TELL US THIS DATE!) to get a defencet to the court. There will be no reminders.

MSE Forum -> Newbies thread -> post 2. READ it. FOLLOW it.
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Jones43
post Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 16:50
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Hello, It's taken a while but I've finally managed to sort those images so I can post them here. I've had to open this new account to do it as the old one didn't have space for the files and I couldn't find a way to delete them. Time is extremely against us now and my friend needs to get a defence together ASAP. Also I think we're too late now to get this moved to a local venue which is frustrating.

Here's everything that looked important relating to ticket 1.

EDIT - This was supposed to be two posts but somehow it's all got merged into 1. Hopefully it still makes sense though. I can't seem to delete it and start again.

This post has been edited by Jones43: Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 16:55
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ostell
post Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 19:51
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So check that NTK against the requirements of POFA. Spot how many things are missing that are required to hold the keeper liable
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Jones43
post Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 11:12
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If I'm looking at the right guidelines (https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability) then POFA says:

6. The Creditor or its agent must have made application to the DVLA for your name and address either

NOT EARLIER than 28 days after the vehicle was parked (where a Notice to Driver was issued); or
NOT LATER than 14 days after the vehicle was parked (where a Notice to Driver was not issued)


My friend is 90% sure a Notice to Driver (ticket) wasn't left on the screen. The SAR shows 23 days between the alleged contravention date and the Keeper details being imported from DVLA. Is that enough for a defence? Neither my friend nor I have the time to attend court to fight this so I'm hoping to find a knock out blow I can just put it writing and make them go away. Is this it? Or do I need to dig deeper.


Also the same POFA guide also says the Notice To Keeper should:

'State whether a notice to the driver was given either to the driver or placed on the vehicle and if so to repeat the information in that notice about paying the parking charge and when'

The notice to keeper does have a Parking Charge Number on it but doesn't state whether a ticket was given to the driver or placed on the vehicle. My friend suspects no ticket was, though it's not impossible he just threw it away as that's what he did for many years. If a ticket had been left on the windscreen wouldn't there be more evidence of it in the SAR than just the existence of a Parking Charge Notice number? Presumably there'd be a copy or picture of it as it is part of the dispute?

Anyway can the wise folk her let me know if that's enough for a defence that I could now write up and reply to the Claim Form with?
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ostell
post Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 13:25
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Here's the definitive POFA For a windscreen ticket they have to wait 28 days before asking the DVLA for the keeper's details so they are too early for a windscreen ticket and they are therefore too late if there was no windscreen ticket.

From the timing I would assume that there was no windscreen ticket and therefore they have not complied with POFA 9 (4) and therefore cannot hold the keeper liable if they do not know the identity of the driver.

The invitation required at 9 (2) (e) is not there and the warning of keeper liability 9 (2) (f) is not there also

You could contact BWL and tell them that their claim cannot be successful and to continue now is vexatious and unreasonable

This post has been edited by ostell: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 13:52
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Jones43
post Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 14:47
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Excellent advice, thank you.

Is it too late to write to BW Legal and tell them to drop this though?
The Claim Form is dated 18 Feb and nothing has been done about it yet. I would have thought my friend needed to fill that in with his defence and reply right away in order to avoid losing by default?
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ManxRed
post Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 15:35
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 5 Mar 2019 - 09:54) *
You obviously have to get the Defendant to acjknowlege the claim, and produce a defence. Gives them 33 days from date of ISSUE (TELL US THIS DATE!) to get a defencet to the court. There will be no reminders.

MSE Forum -> Newbies thread -> post 2. READ it. FOLLOW it.


Has your friend acknowledged the defence yet? 18th February? I fear he may have a CCJ by now, but others can advise.

This post has been edited by ManxRed: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 - 15:36


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