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[NIP Wizard] Helicopter catches me speeding? N. Wales, knew absolutely nothing, until I recieve NIP through post! Legal?
996 GT3
post Mon, 17 Jun 2019 - 18:52
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - May 2019
Date of the NIP: - 4 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 6 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A5 approx. 0.5km east of jctn. with B4407, Pentrefoelas, OS grid ref. 85810 51287, Conwy
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 3
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Coming back from a large Porsche evnt in Llandudno (over 1,000 Porsches on the day).
Came home with my mate following me, as always, aware of everything!
(Road conditions excellent, visibilty 100% and roads were bone dry).
Road users, junctions, road signs, markings etc. No sign of any fixed cameras or camera signs, speed trap areas, absolutely nothing....

By total surprise myself and my mate get NIP's through the post at this location.
At this time, had no idea what road or what speed this was, as I actually had no clue, where we had even been spotted/caught speeding.
I was doing 70mph, my friend 98mph!

Anyway, I posted this on a FB page and then in came the info.... someone confirmed where this was, it's a 60 mph, national speed limit, road, apparently.
It was also mentioned that a helicopter was operating in this area at this time 16:34, and then later someone else confirmed this and that it was in fact a Police Helicopter!
I then began to remember hearing, looking for it and then seeing a helicopter!

I believe this is what caught both me and my mate this Sunday afternoon!

IS this actually legal?
All I have is an NIP with my registration and make of vehicle, speed - 70 mph, location (Approximate and stated in km's!) and time and date, which seems correct with where we were that afternoon.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Wales

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 18:52:44 +0000

This post has been edited by 996 GT3: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 - 18:55
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post Mon, 17 Jun 2019 - 18:52
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southpaw82
post Mon, 17 Jun 2019 - 18:56
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Is what actually legal?


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Jlc
post Mon, 17 Jun 2019 - 19:21
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QUOTE (996 GT3 @ Mon, 17 Jun 2019 - 19:52) *
At this time, had no idea what road or what speed this was, as I actually had no clue, where we had even been spotted/caught speeding.

It's a single carriageway without any signs to the contrary so it was a NSL.

QUOTE (996 GT3 @ Mon, 17 Jun 2019 - 19:52) *
I was doing 70mph, my friend 98mph!

You're in course/fixed penalty territory. You friend is looking at a court visit and likely ban.

QUOTE (996 GT3 @ Mon, 17 Jun 2019 - 19:52) *
I then began to remember hearing, looking for it and then seeing a helicopter!

I think it's more likely you've been caught by the average speed system (here). Ask for a photo to assist in the identification of the driver first (But this doesn't stop the 28 day clock to name the driver). That exact location is in their cameras stats here.

QUOTE (996 GT3 @ Mon, 17 Jun 2019 - 19:52) *
No sign of any fixed cameras or camera signs, speed trap areas, absolutely nothing....

None are required.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 08:41


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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cp8759
post Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 10:50
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QUOTE (996 GT3 @ Mon, 17 Jun 2019 - 19:52) *
No sign of any fixed cameras or camera signs, speed trap areas, absolutely nothing....

None are required because you're expected to comply with the speed limit 100% of the time, regardless of whether there's any overt enforcement. Nothing you mention amounts to a defence.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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andy_foster
post Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 12:14
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QUOTE (996 GT3 @ Mon, 17 Jun 2019 - 19:52) *
No sign of any fixed cameras or camera signs, speed trap areas, absolutely nothing....


Many people mistakenly believe that there is a legal requirement for speed camera signs for speed cameras to be used. This is presumably due to the fact that many years ago New Labour dishonestly stated that this was the case. What they actually did was made a rule that in order to keep the money from the fines the SCPs had to meet the conscipicuity requirements for 85% of cameras. If they failed to do so, they could then report themselves to themselves and decide whether or not they still wanted to keep the money.


--------------------
Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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cp8759
post Thu, 20 Jun 2019 - 20:45
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It's not just labour, a tory minister announced at some point last year that all the grey cameras would be painted bright yellow by October 2018, the HADECS 2 cameras on the M20 are still grey.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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