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[NIP Wizard] Think plates have been cloned, need help.
codyadam
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 19:31
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - January 2019
Date of the NIP: - 4 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A618 Aughton Road near Westfield Avenue, Aughton, Rotherham (N)
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - time of alleged offence (22:16) i would have been in bed as i was due up for work at 04:00 the following day, the alleged offence took place over 10miles away in another county. This is the 2nd such NIP i have received in as many days, the first one was even further away in the same county as this one, the first NIP arrived about a week after i advertised my car online for sale. My car is very distinctive (custom exhaust, wheels and plate holders) and would stand out a mile apart from any other vehicle of the same make/model.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Unsure
Do you know who was driving? - Unsure who was driving
- No

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Tue, 05 Feb 2019 19:31:50 +0000
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post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 19:31
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Jlc
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 19:36
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For a single occurrence it's quite common to be a plate mis-read. Twice does raise the suspicion of being something untoward.

Just to confirm - the car was at home and no one else could have been driving?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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codyadam
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 19:39
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 19:36) *
For a single occurrence it's quite common to be a plate mis-read. Twice does raise the suspicion of being something untoward.

Just to confirm - the car was at home and no one else could have been driving?



Thanks for the reply, it is suspicious that i agree on, and i can confirm my car was outside my house at the time of both alleged offences and noone else has access to my vehicle.
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cp8759
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 19:41
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You could ask for photos to aid in the identification of the driver, they are normally provided. If your car is as distinctive as you say, it won't be an issue to show it couldn't have been your car.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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codyadam
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 19:43
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 19:41) *
You could ask for photos to aid in the identification of the driver, they are normally provided. If your car is as distinctive as you say, it won't be an issue to show it couldn't have been your car.


I'm going to email SYP and request a copy of the photographic evidence, would you advise including photographs of my car in the email and to also explain why it couldn't have possibly been my vehicle?

This post has been edited by codyadam: Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 19:55
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Jlc
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 20:00
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If you hint at cloning they won't provide anything.

Simply ask for photo's to assist in the identification of the driver. (We suggest not using the word evidence too)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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codyadam
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 20:06
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 20:00) *
If you hint at cloning they won't provide anything.

Simply ask for photo's to assist in the identification of the driver. (We suggest not using the word evidence too)


Thank you, Below is what intend to send to SYP

To whom this concerns,

I am in receipt of a Notice of Intended Prosecution for vehicle registration XXX, at camera location A618 Aughton Road near Westfield Avenue, Aughton, Rotherham (N) on jan 31, 2019 at 22:16. To aid in the identification of the driver I would be grateful if you could supply me any photos of the vehicle that may be available.

Kind Regards


I'll hold off on supplying them with any photos of my vehicle and not mention my suspicions regarding cloned plates. Hope the above sounds ok.
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andy_foster
post Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 20:07
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There are 2 ways to approach this - personally I would be minded to be totally up front and state that my vehicle was not involved in the alleged offence(s). I would also be concerned at the possibility of my plate having been cloned and would be seeking confirmation that the plate was not simply misread - if it was not a misread, I would be reporting it to the real police, insisting on getting a URN or crime number and then getting the DVLA to issue a new VRM.

The downside with this approach is that some SCPs will take the view that their information is always right, and that anybody who claims that their vehicle wasn't there is trying to pull a fast one, and more problematically refuse to play ball by providing photos.

My concern with being less than entirely upfront when asking for photos is that that in itself could damage your credibility, and it might be suggested that you wanted the photos to see if you could get away with saying it wasn't your vehicle.


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cp8759
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 09:44
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I would go with what codyadam suggests in post 7. If his car is as distinctive as he says, they can suspect him all they like but once they investigate the matter it will become clear it wasn't his vehicle.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Churchmouse
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 10:00
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Tue, 5 Feb 2019 - 20:07) *
There are 2 ways to approach this - personally I would be minded to be totally up front and state that my vehicle was not involved in the alleged offence(s). I would also be concerned at the possibility of my plate having been cloned and would be seeking confirmation that the plate was not simply misread - if it was not a misread, I would be reporting it to the real police, insisting on getting a URN or crime number and then getting the DVLA to issue a new VRM.

The downside with this approach is that some SCPs will take the view that their information is always right, and that anybody who claims that their vehicle wasn't there is trying to pull a fast one, and more problematically refuse to play ball by providing photos.

My concern with being less than entirely upfront when asking for photos is that that in itself could damage your credibility, and it might be suggested that you wanted the photos to see if you could get away with saying it wasn't your vehicle.

They'd need a bit more than that for PCoJ. Thinking of my own reasoning, I would be more concerned about the risk of falsely informing the police that my plate had been cloned--I might have got my dates wrong, or I might have forgotten about a late-night ciggy run--but the photo of the wrong vehicle would be crystal clear.

--Churchmouse
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Logician
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 11:52
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QUOTE
the first NIP arrived about a week after i advertised my car online for sale.


Did you put up a photo showing the plate? While cloned plates are unusual, and misreads are more common (based on what we see here) two instances make cloning seem quite likely.


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codyadam
post Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 10:02
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Update on NIPs: GOOD RESULT

Emailed SYP on Feb 5 asking for photos to aid me in identifying the driver, received photos on the 7th, the cameras were both rear facing so wouldn't be able to see the driver, but it was clear from the photos that this was NOT my vehicle.

I then emailed SYP again stating that while i couldn't see the driver due to only seeing the rear of the vehicle, i was 100% certain it was not my vehicle in the photos, i included a photo of my vehicle with both NIPs taped to the back window and sent this to them, the next morning i received confirmation from SYP that they believe my vehicle was NOT that which was captured by the roadside cameras and no further action will be taken against me.

Thank you to everyone who replied and read this thread, and for the suggestions and information, Very much appreciated. smile.gif
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Starworshipper12
post Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 10:07
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Good result indeed! And what about the number plate cloning issue?
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Mayhem007
post Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 10:12
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QUOTE (codyadam @ Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 10:02) *
Update on NIPs: GOOD RESULT

Emailed SYP on Feb 5 asking for photos to aid me in identifying the driver, received photos on the 7th, the cameras were both rear facing so wouldn't be able to see the driver, but it was clear from the photos that this was NOT my vehicle.

I then emailed SYP again stating that while i couldn't see the driver due to only seeing the rear of the vehicle, i was 100% certain it was not my vehicle in the photos, i included a photo of my vehicle with both NIPs taped to the back window and sent this to them, the next morning i received confirmation from SYP that they believe my vehicle was NOT that which was captured by the roadside cameras and no further action will be taken against me.

Thank you to everyone who replied and read this thread, and for the suggestions and information, Very much appreciated. smile.gif

Well done. Love the idea of taking a photograph with the NIPs taped to the rear of the vehicle. Nice one.


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The Slithy Tove
post Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 13:56
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QUOTE (Starworshipper12 @ Sun, 10 Feb 2019 - 10:07) *
Good result indeed! And what about the number plate cloning issue?

Yes, you need to follow up on this, as you're likely to be getting more. People who clone plates don't do so in order to carry on about their lives within the law.
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Redivi
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 09:35
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I would expect somebody using cloned plates to change them after three or four weeks when owners will start contacting police about the NIPs

Even so, the OP ought to make sure he carries a copy of his vehicle documents in case his car has now been targeted for stops
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Starworshipper12
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 11:04
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I was curious as to whether this really was a case of cloning. As Logician mentioned earlier it’s an unusual occurrence, and the police apparently don’t want to assist when you ask for photographic evidence to prove this...

So what did SYP’s photos reveal?

This post has been edited by Starworshipper12: Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 11:07
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thisisntme
post Mon, 11 Feb 2019 - 20:08
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There are more sinister reasons than getting out of speeding fines for cloning. They are often used to evade ANPR plates by hardened criminals, so OP if I were you, I would do something about the clone...


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Mayhem007
post Tue, 12 Feb 2019 - 09:43
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I would also hang onto all the paperwork clearing you of any wrong doing, as if they were family heirlooms.


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