PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Havering No Right Turn
rsg444
post Fri, 19 Jan 2018 - 14:59
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 420
Joined: 21 Mar 2014
Member No.: 69,597



Hi all, my brother received a PCN through the post for an alleged contravention of ignoring a no right turn sign. The no right turn is apparently at Tangent Link for customers coming out of B&Q in Harold Hill. He did not notice any signs but on revisiting he now noticed that there is one there. Are there any grounds to challenge this as a simple mistake on what looks like a private road shouldn't really result in a £65 fine in my opinion.

Front page of PCN through post shown below:

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
4 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 >  
Start new topic
Replies (20 - 39)
Advertisement
post Fri, 19 Jan 2018 - 14:59
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 21:12
Post #21


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 21:05) *
Clue -"parking"


bus stops or schools via CCTV under TMA 2004


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 21:32
Post #22


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,269
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 21:12) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 21 Jan 2018 - 21:05) *
Clue -"parking"


bus stops or schools via CCTV under TMA 2004

Wasn't talking to you tongue3.gif Plonker rolleyes.gif

Rather, reassuring rsg.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rsg444
post Mon, 22 Jan 2018 - 14:21
Post #23


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 420
Joined: 21 Mar 2014
Member No.: 69,597



Ok thanks all, I've contacted Havering for a TMO and the directed me to the following page: http://www.haveringtraffweb.co.uk//

I typed in Tangent Link and all I see under documents is a Map with a No Right Turn symbol on there.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rsg444
post Thu, 25 Jan 2018 - 00:03
Post #24


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 420
Joined: 21 Mar 2014
Member No.: 69,597



Went back to see signage. This is what they have right now:



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 25 Jan 2018 - 09:06
Post #25


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



Did this for the same place yesterday if it helps


dear Mr Parking

Representations against PCN number XXXXXXX
vehicle registration mark AB 12 CDE

Your name and address

I make these representations under the statutory ground That the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case.

The London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003 at 4(8)(a)(iii) states. 2That the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the notice"

The PCN fails here. It states " 28 days beginning with the date on which this PCN is served. This is in the normal course of post, two working days later. this would create an obvious prejudice, and fail to comply with the regulations.

The PCN fails similarly at 4(8)(a)(iv) using the same date of service rather than date of notice. It further fails in stating the discount is available for 21 days rather than the mandated 14 days.

The PCN fails to comply with the regulations, it is thus not a valid document and no penalty may be demanded on the back of it. Therefore the penalty demanded exceeds the relevant amount in the circumstances of the case, as the only amount that can be due on the strength of this PCN is NIL

I look forward to confirmation of cancellation at your soonest convenience


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Thu, 25 Jan 2018 - 11:41
Post #26


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,269
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 25 Jan 2018 - 09:06) *
it is thus not a valid document and no penalty may be demanded on the back of it.

I can just see the rejection now, from some HBC muppet.

'If you look, we actually demanded the penalty on the front'.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 25 Jan 2018 - 11:51
Post #27


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (Neil B @ Thu, 25 Jan 2018 - 11:41) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 25 Jan 2018 - 09:06) *
it is thus not a valid document and no penalty may be demanded on the back of it.

I can just see the rejection now, from some HBC muppet.

'If you look, we actually demanded the penalty on the front'.



Wot you smokin biggrin.gif


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rsg444
post Thu, 25 Jan 2018 - 13:06
Post #28


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 420
Joined: 21 Mar 2014
Member No.: 69,597



Thanks very much!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rsg444
post Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:19
Post #29


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 420
Joined: 21 Mar 2014
Member No.: 69,597



Dear All,

Havering sent a reply - a notice of rejection. I've only just found out from my brother that it was received. We have 2 days to pay at discounted rate.

It appears they've not taken any points into consideration. Is this worth a tribunal or just shut up and pay up? Help much appreciated as always.




Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:21
Post #30


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,269
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



QUOTE (rsg444 @ Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:19) *
We have 2 days to pay at discounted rate.

You've obscured the date!



--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:22
Post #31


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



100% appeal, failing to consider the points raised will win on its own. Add the fact that the PCN wasn't compliant and you're almost certain to win at the tribunal.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:25
Post #32


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:22) *
100% appeal, failing to consider the points raised will win on its own. Add the fact that the PCN wasn't compliant and you're almost certain to win at the tribunal.



NoR is bobbins as well


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:27
Post #33


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,269
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



rejection has the usual errors too


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rsg444
post Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:42
Post #34


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 420
Joined: 21 Mar 2014
Member No.: 69,597



QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:21) *
QUOTE (rsg444 @ Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:19) *
We have 2 days to pay at discounted rate.

You've obscured the date!


Date on letter is 23rd Feb 2018

Ok, so the recommendation is to appeal to tribunals using grounds that PCN was non compliant and the authority failed to consider the point raised in the Representation?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:49
Post #35


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (rsg444 @ Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:42) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:21) *
QUOTE (rsg444 @ Wed, 14 Mar 2018 - 16:19) *
We have 2 days to pay at discounted rate.

You've obscured the date!


Date on letter is 23rd Feb 2018

Ok, so the recommendation is to appeal to tribunals using grounds that PCN was non compliant and the authority failed to consider the point raised in the Representation?

For now just register your appeal and say something like "reasons to follow in due course", you then have some breathing space to type up your appeal.

Have a search through the forum for "Failure to consider" (Ground 4 in the appeal for this case http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...20&start=20 is a good starting point), and also research the points pointed out by other members, then post a draft on here for comment.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rsg444
post Thu, 15 Mar 2018 - 17:09
Post #36


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 420
Joined: 21 Mar 2014
Member No.: 69,597



Thanks cp8759.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rsg444
post Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 15:02
Post #37


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 420
Joined: 21 Mar 2014
Member No.: 69,597



What do I select as Grounds of appeal - I've gone for "The penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case" or the other viable option is "The alleged contravention did not occur"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 15:05
Post #38


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (rsg444 @ Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 15:02) *
What do I select as Grounds of appeal - I've gone for "The penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case" or the other viable option is "The alleged contravention did not occur"



The penalty exceeded etc


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
rsg444
post Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 15:43
Post #39


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 420
Joined: 21 Mar 2014
Member No.: 69,597



Thanks
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 15:50
Post #40


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (rsg444 @ Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 15:43) *
Thanks


post here for review before you submit anything


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

4 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 29th March 2024 - 11:03
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here